The World O' Crap Archive

Welcome to the Collected World O' Crap, a comprehensive library of posts from the original Salon Blog, and our successor site, world-o-crap.com (2006 to 2010).

Current posts can be found here.
Showing posts with label War On Xmas. Show all posts
Showing posts with label War On Xmas. Show all posts

Friday, May 20, 2011

A New War on Christmas Holiday Classic

I have something to confess:  Lately, I just don’t feel like I’ve been doing my part in the War on Christmas.  Oh sure, I’ve served as an air raid warden, and I’ve bought war bonds and saved bacon drippings, and I take part in all the paper drives, scrap metal drives, and rubber-meets-the-bat drives.  And sure, I stopped Mr. Potter from taking over the town, but even though my sore ear keeps me out of combat, I can’t help feeling that I should be doing more.

But then, couldn’t we all be doing more?  Hey, I know!  Let’s all work together, and I bet we can make this the best War on Christmas ever!  Just list your nominees for the worst Christmas movie ever made.  Candidates need not be limited to films that are badly made or poorly acted, but may also include films that reek of cynicism or ennui, in that perfunctory, Hallmark Hall of Fame sort of way.  And the movie need not focus on Christmas, so long as it’s bad enough and there’s a defensible connection to the holiday.

Post your nominations in the comments.  We’ll select one to receive the Better Living Through Bad Movies treatment, and we’ll post the winner…loser…whatever…on Christmas Eve.  And you can keep the Sneaker Phone as our free gift to you.

(The two MST3K holiday episodes, the Mexican Santa Claus and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians are ineligible for this contest.  Odds of winning are based on number of entries.  Void in Utah.)


82 Responses to “A New War on Christmas Holiday Classic”


Hmm… Dr. Seuss’ “The Grinch” (or whatever they called that live-action movie with Jim Carrey) made me die a little inside.
I’d say that an easier contest would be to list the least-offensive Christmas-themed movie. Christmas movies, by their very nature, are simplistic, pandering affairs. They have to appeal to children as well as adults, and there’s really only one way for any of them to end. Meanwhile, the dialogue is stilted, the acting almost entirely one-note, and the plot on auto-pilot.
I would have to nominate any Christmas film involving Tim Allen or any holiday film ever shown on Lifetime. Then, of course, there’s “Jingle All The Way.” Schwarzenegger AND Sinbad? (shudder) Or what about “Ernest Saves Christmas”? Nothing says “Happy Birthday, Jesus” like redneck toilet humor.
I thought, this is a cinch: a movie with a murdering Santa Claus is sure-fire arsefodder. Then I remembered there are a LOT of those. Kind of scary–in fact, quite a bit more frightening than any of the individual entrees.
I am ashamed to admit that I have forgotten which one ends with that WTF? moment involving a flying van. So I’m gonna go with the one in my DVD collection:
“Silent Night, Deadly Night.”
Nothing in this psychological-trauma festival–especially the scene with Grampa–must ever, under any circumstances, be viewed by anyone under the age of, say, thirty.
For them, there’s always “Surviving Christmas.”
*There’s even a couple of episodes of “Futurama” featuring a killer ROBOT Santa–and in the future, Christmas is officially called “X-mas,” so I guess we dirty liberal pagans win the war! Huzzah!
Happy Holidays!
I can’t stand “A Christmas Story” w/ that vampire chasin’ guy and the kid w/ the glasses.
I was going to suggest “Christmas with the Kranks,” but it’s a toss-up as to whether it or Ron Howard’s “Dr. Seuss’s How the Grinch Stole Christmas” is more excruciating (“Grinch” made a fortune, which makes it even more hateable)
“The Christmas Shoes.” (Made for TV two or three years ago.)God help me, I wish I had those two hours back!!! Like drowning in high-fructose corn syrup!
Dear Academy,
Please consider Jack Frost, the movie where Michael Keaton dies, and then comes back as a snowman in order to traumatize his son further. Thumpety-thump-thump indeed!
“Santa With Muscles”
Stars Hulk Hogan.
Nuff said.
Dammit–in my haste, I forgot to blather on and on about how the release of “Silent But Deadly Night” (sic) stirred up a nationwide campaign to have it banned/boycotted; naturally the resulting publicity made it astonishingly profitable, subjecting us to FOUR brainsmashingly awful sequels and teaching us a valuable lesson about the true meaning of Ecksmuss: ka-ching!
Lumps of coal for everyone!
Nothing tops “Santa’s Slay”. Because Goldberg trumps Hogan as an actor…
http://spoonyexperiment.com/rants/SantasSlay/
I hate Christmas Movies.
I assume all TV made for movies are off limits. Otherwise it’s going to be a feeding frenzy over which boilerplate is the worst: cranky old farts who:
A)lives in a mansion and spent his life in the pursuit of wealth
B)lives in the suburbs and doesn’t go out since son disappeared
C) lives on the top of a mountain in Tennessee morosely talking to their hound dog
learn the true meaning of Christmas after an A)angel B)nun C) process server
played by
A) Dolly Parton B) Whoopi Goldberg C)Alec Baldwin
reunites (or unites) them with A) their son B) daughter C) cherubic hermaphroditic orphan
played by
A) Travis Tritt B)Brittany Spears C) Ted Nugent. You can even mix and match.
Okay, my vote is for the Family Man which I detest. I mean Cage gets Tia Leone, is still a gazillionaire and all that crap about life in New Jersey ( from whence I hail) is only a nightmare. I mean it is as if Mr. Potter gets Mary. Shit, for Christmas he and Leone probably foreclose on a soup kitchen the next day. God, that movie sucks.
How bad wasSanta Claus – The Movie? I didn’t want to inflict the pain of Dudley Moore as an elf, but maybe someone around here has masochistic tendencies.
I second the live-action version of “How the Grinch Stole Christmas”. My then 3 year-old nephew hated it.
And “Scrooged!”, the ’80′s update of “A Christmas Carol” with Bill Murray as a yuppie Scrooge, Alfre Woodward as the Cratchett stand-in, and Bobcat Goldthwait. (Redeemed slightly, IMO, by the really nice Al Green/Annie Lennox duet of “Put A Little Love In Your Heart”.)
Oh, gods, I’d forgotten completely about “A Smoky Mountain Christmas”, starring Dolly Parton and her wig collection. Jaded country singer goes back to Appalachia to encounter adorable orphans, rugged macho mountain men, and a wicked witch (no really) played by Anita Morris. My mother has to watch it every single year.
And if you want killer Santas, I would check out the Invader Zim episode “The Most Horrible Xmas Ever”…
SNOWMAN: But Santa lives on.
CHILD: In the hearts and minds of us all?
SNOWMAN: No! In the far reaches of space! That’s why we live in this protective dome! (ALARM BELLS RING) Raise the shields, children!!!
Apologies to tomg, but made-for-TV Christmas movies are the apogee of holiday horror (or TV horror, period, except possibly for Sci-Fi Channel originals like “Mansquito”). Just as some radio stations switch to 24/7 Christmas carols each December, so do Lifetime and WE with heartwarming dramas.
Why, just last night ABC Family aired a worthy contender with Jenny McCarthy as Santa (George Wendt)’s daughter, although Kelsey Grammer’s turn as Santa’s son probably tops that. And Bill Murray’s “Scrooged” has nothing on “A Christmas Carol” remakes such as Vanessa Williams in VH1′s “A Diva’s Christmas Carol” (the Ghost of Christmas Future is a “Behind the Music” episode) or Susan Lucci as “Ebbie.”
Forced to pick just one, however, I’d go with Marlo Thomas’s “It Happened One Christmas” — a sex-swapped remake of “It’s a Wonderful Life” with suicidal Mary Bailey (Thomas) saved by guardian angel Clara (Cloris Leachman), while husband George (Wayne Rogers) hangs around in the background and Orson Welles plays mean old Mr. Potter.
Eric G – that is why I thought made-for-TV Christmas movies, all of them bad, were discounted. Trying to distinguish one level of idiocy from another is simply too much. It requires a refinement of sensibility that no human really has. I think Hume talks about it in his essay On Taste, although not specifically referring to Christmas made for TV movies, TV not being around in the 1740s. So far,four made-for TV contenders contenders with which I am familiar,have been noted: Ebbie, A Diva’s Christmas, It Happened One Christmas, and A Smoky Mountain Christmas. But distinguishing amongst them? It’s like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and then being sidetracked into wondering whether they are doing the macarena or the hokey pokey.
Still, I guess we have to admit made for TV movies, and therefore I wish to withdraw my vote from The Family Man which is merely morally stupid to consider my other choices.
Wasn’t there a TV movie about 10 years ago where Angela Lansbury played Mrs. Claus? No, it wasn’t a murder mystery.
I remember a few years back I called into the local radio station when they were discussing favourite Christmas movies. So I wanted to talk about “A Junkie’s Christmas.” Written by William S Burroughs and directed by Francis Ford Coppola. The host of the show was quite open to me describing the movie but he did seem a little shocked that such a thing actually existed. If you ever find it, be sure to show it for your visiting religious family over the holiday. That should be enough to get them to shut up about Jesus for at least an hour.
Second Kevin, there acn’t be a worse movie than one based on a song that goes, “Hurry, sir, there’s not much time, I want her to be beautiful if momma meets Jesus tonight.” Plus Rob Lowe is in The Christmas Shoes, nuff said.
Ohhhh, “Christmas Shoes” the first time I ever heard of that song, Patton Oswalt was doing a bit on it at Largo(I think). Fuckin’ killed with that bit, and I kept thinking “No way there is a song like that”, but then I heard it. My ears still bleed a bit when I think about it.
My nominees are:
One Magic Christmas: The MOST depressing Christmas movie EVER, with Harry Dean Stanton as a creepy, pedophliliac-seeming angel, and Santa God. Or something like that. All I know is that when people die, they don’t go to heaven, they go work in Santa God’s sweatshop–er workshop. Or something like that.
Once Upon A Christmas (or it’s sequel, Twice Upon A Christmas) with Kathy Ireland as Santa’s daughter, who brings the Christmas spirit and an annoying squeaky voice to the lives of a grinchy family.
I second “Jingle All the Way”. I sat all the way through this one once, I don’t remember why, since I’ve never liked Christmas movies, but I did. It’s got Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sinbad, and an incredibly materialistic Christmas message of buying forgiveness and love with toys. Just thinking about it makes me want to go out and burn a Christmas tree.
Can I nominate the Very Special Christmas Episode that every freakin’ TV show feels obliged to have every year?
OMG, MaryC–One Magic Christmas! I was trying to remember the name of that horrible movie. The woman’s husband is killed in a bank robbery, the thief steals her car–with her two kids in the back seat. Thief crashes car into river and kids are swept away…and the fricking angel rags on her for “not having the Christmas spirit” or some shit because she doesn’t believe in Santa Claus? It’s truly “throw stuff at the screen” bad.
If I recall correctly, the husband doesn’t actually “come back to life” at the end. So you know, her husband is dead, but woman learns to be grateful for…I don’t know. It made no sense to me–but I didn’t drink back then.
I nominate The Polar Express… because Christmas movies have been mawkish, they have been wrong-headed, but never before had they been populated by CREEPY, SOULLESS DOLL-PEOPLE.
Void in Utah.
Oh, darn. I was gonna nominate “Teh Mitt Of Teh Latter Day Saints™: Teh Mitt Romney Story.” Now I’ll have to think of something else.
Hey! Why hasn’t Sci-Fi done “A Very Mansquito Christmas” yet? It’d be a shoo-in to become an annual holiday classic!
Christmas movies have been mawkish, they have been wrong-headed, but never before had they been populated by CREEPY, SOULLESS DOLL-PEOPLE.
I take it you’ve never seen Andy Williams.
OK, OK. For real this time. My nomination was on last night, and I didn’t even catch it. Of course, not seeing something hasn’t ever kept a wingnut critic silent, so what the hey! It’s a remake, would you believe it, of a 1974 Rankin-Bass animated TV special, “The Year Without a Santa Claus.” Now, the plot of the ’74 version, ‘cos it appears that they… um… changed things a wee bit in last night’s version, but more on that in a minute!
Anyway, as I was saying, in the ’74 one, Santa decides to take the year off, possibly because he feels that people are ungrateful wretches (memory doesn’t serve). Since this was ’74, and environmentalism was all the rage, Santa becomes entangled with Mother Nature and her two sons: Heat Miser and Cold Miser. The boys are warring with each other, and MN wants Santa to help find a way to restore the peace (yes, Vietnam references, too!). You can figure the rest out yourself. Along the way, we’re treated to two rather catchy songs, “Mr. Heat Miser,” and “Mr. Cold Miser,” which are actually pretty much the same song with slightly different lyrics.
OK, yesterday’s version is a live-action movie. I’d be really darned surprised if there were any Iraq references in it. Or Green ones. And, wotta cast! Harvey Fierstein plays Heat Miser, who, along with his bro, Cold Miser, is evidently a pro wrestler (!!!) in the remake. I have no idea if they’re supposed to be the Nature-themed demi-gods of the old, animated special. I mean, sure, Carol Kane is there as Mother Nature, but who knows? She could just as easily be a “wacky” lady wrestler just as easily as anything. The songs? Again, unknown. I actually could picture that cast singing, so I won’t even bet.
If anyone out there has seen the 2006 version of “The Year Without a Santa Claus,” fill us in! I’m dying to hear!
Possibly just me, but “It’s a Wonderful Life” has always rather struck me as proof that Jesus’ bedroom is decorated with paintings of huge-eyed kittens in baskets and Precious Moments figurines. Short of that, my vote goes to the Jim Carrey grinch thing, for the reason Charlotte cites.
Worst christmas movie? “Home Alone”.
Best christmas movie? “The Sure Thing”.
what about Billy Bob in “Bad Santa”, talk about creepy.
Babes in Toyland
I second the nomination of “A Christmas Story.” I’ve never seen it, but that kid with the glasses creeps me out, and it just looks like a contender. I think the nomination of “Bad Santa” is a good one also, and what about the one with that Home Improvement guy, Tim Something-or-other. Mind you, I never saw any of these, but they get my vote, anyway. I like “Scrooged” though!
Best Christmas movie? Die Hard. Has to be. It has snow, and family values, and lovers reunited, and a smiling man with a beard and lots of toys, and happy policemen, and a big fir tree and a happy song at the end!
(In the UK, “The Great Escape” used to be a regular BBC fixture on the afternoon of Christmas Day. Name me another family Christmas film special in which almost the entire cast gets machinegunned by the SS at the end.)
Don’t forget that 1964 classic, “Santa Claus Conquers the Martians?”
Okay, you made me do this. Witness the suck that is The Star Wars Holiday Special. It’s like the neutron bomb of bad holiday shows. Of course it can’t win the contest, because as the folks from SCTV said about Laverne & Shirley, some shows defy parody.
Ah…”The Star Wars Holiday Special.” I think Carrie Fisher is probably grateful that she was way too high during the filming to remember any of it.
For more years than I can remember “It’s a Wonderful Life” has made me want to stick red hot needles into my eyes.
How do I detest it? Let me count the ways… no, that’s not how the poem goes…
ANYHOO, that’s my number one holiday movie hate. The remake of the Grinch with Jim Carrey (or for that matter, anything AT ALL with Jim Carrey) comes in second.
The Santa Clause 2 and/or 3. I didn’t mind the first one, but it really wasn’t worthy of a sequel. And now, a third one? Why? Just… why?
Shame on those who nominate the best Christmas movie of all time Bad Santa! Also I like A Christmas Story, if only for the lines “My father worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium, a master. ”
I did watch about 5 minutes of the live action “Year without a Santa Claus.” In the animated version, the Misers minions are miniature versions of themselves. In this one, they were scantily clad babes.
To Grandmother’s House We Go, starring the Olsen twins.
You’re left rooting for a big bad wolf to show up…
I just don’t think it’s OK for you folks to make fun of Christmas, that day when we commemorate the birth of Santa Claus.
that day when we commemorate the birth of Santa Claus.
That would be the Rankin-Bass creepfest, Santa Claus is Comin’ to Town, depicting Santa’s early years from foundling to robust redhead with a yen for the local schoolmarm. Narrated by a bendy toy Fred Astaire with a head shaped like a Contact cold capsule.
I would like to nominate the Wicker Man ( original version) as the best sort-of Christmas movie ( in a pagan, human sacrifice, solstice sun worshipping, fertility sort of way). I’m still thinking of the worst Christmas movie ever.
I still haven’t forgiven the co-worker who told me, “No, Matt, you’ll love ‘The Elf’. It’s really sweet and funny.”
No, it was dull and mawkish, and there should be a law passed that requires Will Ferrell to get daily ass beatings if he wants to remain a “movie star”. It might’ve made a cute half-hour show, but goddamn, that was a long hour-and-a-half that I could’ve been, I dunno, washing a tractor or something.
Oh, how could I forgot the monstronsity that is “Grandma Got Run Over by A Reindeer“?
Yeah, that amusing-the-first-time, maybe-the-second-time-if-you’re-drunk, song got made into the one of the most awful cartoons I’ve ever seen. It’s not just the piss-poor animation, the stereotyped characters (the sexy blonde is a money-grubbing schemer? who saw that coming?), the ridiculous plot (let’s wait around a year for no reason!)–it’s the total idiocy of the whole thing (“reindeer nip”? Santa Claus gets put on trial for “the disappearance of Grandma”? WTF?).
It combines the worst parts of brainless children’s shows, stupid marketing tie-ins, and sappy holiday glurge into 51 truly awful minutes of TV torture.
D. Sidhe said: Possibly just me, but “It’s a Wonderful Life” has always rather struck me as proof that Jesus’ bedroom is decorated with paintings of huge-eyed kittens in baskets and Precious Moments figurines.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! God, I loathe that movie, and I’m so happy I’m not the only one who does — especially as D. Sidhe’s comments are always great. It goes right along with other things our parents liked that I’ve never been able to understand, like baggy suits and the Dead End Kids.
But now I have to hang my head in shame because I like “Scrooged”. Well, I do!
From the Great White North:
The Silent Partner
“The Canadian “sleeper” The Silent Partner stars Elliot Gould as a teller who gets wind of master criminal Christopher Plummer’s scheme to rob his bank. Don’t let the comic-strip style poster art of Silent Partner, depicting a gun-wielding Santa Claus, fool you; this one gets extremely brutal and bloody at times. Also . . . a very young and hairy John Candy.”
And
Black Christmas
“Though John Carpenter’s Halloween (1978) is generally credited with popularizing the main motifs of the contemporary slasher film genre, many genre aficionados will contend that Black Christmas invented many of them four years earlier. For example, the film features shots from the perspective of the killer, replete with muffled breathing noises. Also, it is a slasher film centered around a holiday, much in the manner Halloween was.”
‘Cause nothing says Christmas like psycho bank robbers and freshly dead sorority girls.
Mont D. Law
I too vote for Jingle All the Way and/or Jack Frost.
Speaking of elves, how about a Little People contest? Under the Rainbow takes suck into a new dimension.
I’d rather watch every bad Christmas movie ever made than read the load of polysyllabic bullshit on this site. It’s a wonderful world were a bunch of unweaned, privlidged, self-absorbed, intellectual wanna-bees can get together and share their Jack Handy deep thoughts about a popular culture they despise. Fuck you and your post-modern drivel. By the way, Merry Christmas
Ooooh, a real, live Christmas troll! And wishing us greetings in the true spirit of the Season! Isn’t that sweet.
Well, BeginningToWonder, trolls have to celebrate too…
But back to the movies at hand. So far I count three, count them, three different nominations for “It’s a Wonderful Life.”
And heartfelt nominations they were, too. You could feel the pain and loathing dripping out of the… sorry… getting carried away here.
I’m just dropping by to let you know that if DSidhe, Tehanu and I all agree on this we should get triple points for sweetly agreeing. Or something. But if “It’s a Wonderful Life” doesn’t win we’ll, we’ll, well, we’ll think of something awful to do…
“White Christmas” with Bing Crosby ins’t the worst but it needs to be mentioned. WTF was that? I started to watch it and soon grew ill an dhad to turn it off during a song on the train. ew ew ew ew ew.
But worst ever, The live “Grinch.” The original didn’t need to be remade and then to remake it badly earns it a special place in film hell.
Oh and a special tip of the barf-bag to the music video with David Bowie and Bing Crosby singing some Christmas song together.
And to make the trolls happy: best Christmas Movie/TV show: “A Charlie Brown Christmas.” Cute but not sickly so, great music that appeals across age groups, a nice story and it mentions the religious aspect without sounding like a Hallmark card.
“Jack Frost”. Not the Michael Keaton gagfest, the Rankin-Bass special involving a murderous Cossack and his windup-robot army, fainting maidens and valiant blond knights in golden armor, and a groundhog. Blecherous!
“…and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians are ineligible for this contest.”
BASTARDS!!
(sniff)
“I’d rather watch every bad Christmas movie ever made than read the load of polysyllabic bullshit on this site. It’s a wonderful world were a bunch of unweaned, privlidged, self-absorbed, intellectual wanna-bees can get together and share their Jack Handy deep thoughts about a popular culture they despise. Fuck you and your post-modern drivel. By the way, Merry Christmas”
Left by Roger Gavin on December 13th, 2006

Which is ironic given that you had to want to come here and actually read things in order to whine about them…IOW you’re a fucktard.
I vote for Silent Night, Deadly Night if no one has already mentioned it.
Cheers!
Hey, Sean, you couldn’t define irony let alone give me an example of it. And ironic sounds a lot like another word that describes a cretin misfit like yourself: moronic. Get a life you fucktard.
You know, I have to step up to defend A Christmas Story. My parents were from that era, and I haven’t seen a better parody of suburban American life, ever. It could be a generational thing. (Besides, it has Electric Sex in it! How do you beat that?)
I would like to nominate the Wicker Man ( original version) as the best sort-of Christmas movie ( in a pagan, human sacrifice, solstice sun worshipping, fertility sort of way). I’m still thinking of the worst Christmas movie ever.
Tomg, I don’t know if Wicker Man counts: it’s a Lughnasad/Lamas movie (August 1), not Christmas/Yule/Solstice. Celts did the cross-quarter days more than the equinoxes and solstices.
It is a kickin’ movie, though.
I must really vote for It’s a Wonderful Life. Mawkish, horribly sentimental, and as manipulative as a smothering Mom, it’s the diseased root from which all rotten Christmas movies have sprouted. People had better sense when it was originally released – it was not a success and was laughed at for years. Blame the ’70s for its comeback and installation as a “great” film.
The Angela Landsberry xmas movie you’re thinking of is Mrs. Santa Claus. I whole heartedly agree with whoever put up Grandma Got Ran Over by a Reigndeer: horrid writing and animation as well as nearly ruining a song I rather liked at one time.
As for Santa’s Slay, any movie that kills annouying, holier-than-thou types who bitch about “happy holidays” gets at least one cool point from me.
But if “It’s a Wonderful Life” doesn’t win we’ll, we’ll, well, we’ll think of something awful to do…
We’ll perform, Live From The Comments, The Star Wars Christmas Special (Dibs on that Ewok thing!). That’ll teach y’all.
And no, no, Sean’s right. Irony is going out of your way to do something–twice–that you declare you would rather watch every bad Christmas movie ever made than do. Unless, of course, you’ve actually already *watched* them all and are just bored now. In which case, welcome, we’re sort of masochistic like that about bad movies too. Do you have the book yet?
(Um, do you think Jesus minds you using traditional good wishes involving His birthday as a translation for “Fuck you”? It doesn’t seem in keeping with the spirit, really.)
Dear Gav-Gav: you come here to insult us, and check back to gauge the responses; you might as well wear a huge flashing neon sign on your head that reads, \”I have no life.\” Trust me, you only succeed in amusing us.
Dave Larsen over at Dayton Daily News has a \”worst\” list up, and it looks…familiar. (He also nicks Adam Sandler\’s \”Eight Crazy Nights,\” which had burned itself out of my memory. Now I taste blood and ozone. Thanks a lot, Dave.)
Happy Holidays!
http://www.daytondailynews.com/l/content/oh/story/
living/holiday/2006/12/05/ddn120606lifebadholidaytv.html
Hi Dorothy,
Thanks for the info. I knew it was summer, but didn’t know about Celts and quarter-cross days ( or what a quarter-cross day is). Still, since there are no Saturnalia movies ( which in its earliest form involved killing of the king substitute and according to legend went on until 303 CE when a Christian soldier in Durostorum was chosen mock king, refused to participate, so they celebrated in a truly traditional manner and killed him.),I though I’d nominate Wicker Man in the true spirit of the season. Sort of like one of those Christmas in July movies. It is a kickin movie
Okay, I’m seeing a trend here, and I’m feeling strong and hopeful. DSidhe, Tehanu and I have been joined by mndean. The groundswell for “It’s a Wonderful Life” is growing, and we’re turning into an avalanche. To mix my metaphors. (During the holiday season mixed metaphors are almost as tasty as mixed drinks and mixed nuts. And God knows the holiday parties are full of mixed nuts…) Remember, I’m keeping an eye on this contest. Also bear in mind what DSidhe said our revenge would be. After that the only recourse would be to scoop out your eyeballs with spoons. (Thanks to one of the guys at “Sadly, No” for that delicious image.)
No disrespect to the Sadly, No! boys, but I’ve tended to question the value of spoons in an eyeball-scooping-out situation. Some in-the-trenches research among my fellow migraineurs leads me to conclude that it’s strictly a melon baller scenario. Myself, I have a professional melon baller that is easily the most high-end implement in my kitchen, and yes that includes the zester, and since I don’t ball melons, professionally or otherwise, it’s likely to be the only chance I get to use the thing.
What were we talking about again?
Why, I believe, DS, we were discussing the most effective way to gouge out one’s eyeballs. Someone’s been reading too much Cormack McCarthy (I’d say too much Sadly, No – but that’s impossible).
*Sigh* We’ve already been through this. Roger Gavin, look at the date on your previous entry. now, tell me, is it Christmas yet? No? Then STFU, please. Thanx! Oh, and Happy Holidaze, dude!
I’d rather watch every bad Christmas movie ever made than read the load of polysyllabic bullshit on this site.
…says Roger Gavin the Christmas Troll, who merrily uses his tribe’s traditional greeting of holiday joy as an epithet to abuse the hated polysyllabic liberals.
Hey, Sean, you couldn’t define irony let alone give me an example of it. And ironic sounds a lot like another word that describes a cretin misfit like yourself: moronic.
Well, “irony” and “ironic” are big, polysyllabic words, so it makes sense that you would not understand them. I’ll try to explain using monosyllabic (I mean, small) words.
Irony is when the true intended meaning is other than the obvious conventional meaning. (Damnit, too many syllables. Well, try to keep up anyway…)
For example: For most people, the expression (oops, I mean, phrase) “Merry Christmas” means to wish someone a happy holiday, specifically a happy Christmas with good will to all and decorating and family and giving gifts and doing things for the kids and eating pie.
For Christians, it’s about these things and it’s also about Jesus for reasons that make no sense if you understand (I mean, “get”) anything about the historical origins (I mean, “where it came from”) of the holiday.
The rest of us just stick to the goodwill, etc., and pie, and this seems to bother some people.
“Merry Christmas” is a nice thing to say, if one looks only at the literal meaning and its obviously friendly (I mean “nice”) intent.
Your use of it, on the other hand, is as an epithet (I mean, “insult”): your real meaning is made clear in the previous sentence.
You do not intend to wish us a happy and joyous celebration (I mean, “happy times”) with our families; rather, you are using it as a substitute for “fuck you” which is the opposite intention (I mean, “it’s, like, so NOT…”) of the phrase’s normal meaning.
This is irony. Congratulations on your successful use of a concept you do not understand. I hope this helps you. I really tried not to use too many big words like “polysyllabic.”
Good luck with the anti-polysyllabic thing. Most folks require a higher than 3rd grade education, but if you can do ok without it, more power to you.
And Happy Holidays to everyone.
and since I don’t ball melons, professionally or otherwise,
Here’s a tip. Using a paring knife, peel away the hard outer shell in a circle around the hole; this leaves a soft and wet tunnel of fleshy material that yeilds to pressure and avoids the dreaded “skin scrape” that can come with leaving the hard shell intact. Some use a serrated knife to make the hole, as this leaves little ribbed ridges on the inner surface.
What? Why is everyone looking at me like that?
Oh, and for gouging eyes, doesn’t anyone just use their thumbs anymore? I guess I’m a traditionalist.
I’ll have to go with “It’s A Wonderful Life” as well. What happened was the copyright for the movie was allowed to expire for a few years so anyone could air it as often as they wanted, edited in any fashion, even in a colorized version! But even if it hadn’t been over exposed, it was just a whiny-assed movie!
And runner-up status goes to “Ebbie” with Susan Lucci playing Elizabeth “Ebbie” Scrooge.
RobW:
I have a feeling Roger Gavin thinks “Rain on your wedding day” truly is ironic.
While falling out of copyright made IAWL a widely available (and cheap to buy) movie, that was much later, in the 80′s, long after it was enshrined as a “classic”. Blame film revivals and institutions such as the UCLA film school for this ludicrous and deplorable situation. Oh, and all those stoned ’70′s kids watching and weeping who were far more gushingly sentimental than their parents. Pot isn’t always wonderful, it produces altered states such as thinking (if you can call it that) IAWL is good.
Oh, as for Roger – ignore him, he’s a bomb thrower (a term I use for particularly loud, obnoxious trolls).
I want to nominate Chuck Jones’s “The Grinch Who Stole Christmas.” A bigger load of unbelievable, derivative crap I have never seen. That green clod would never be able to pass himself off as Santa, not even to that little brat, Cindy-Lou Who. And the Whos of Whoville would NEVER respond to the tragic loss of their presents with such joy and happiness. Ridiculous. And what’s up that little dog, anyway? “Do monsters even keep pets, or do they eat them?” I ask you. And that anemic mutt could never plausibly haul that huge sleigh. I mean, please!
Oh, wait, I forgot, ‘The Grinch’ was actually really good. Never mind. I withdraw the nomination.
Oh, and I’d love to void in Utah, but I couldn’t hold it in long enough to make the trip.
ALL RIGHT!!! The groundswell grows… DSidhe, Tehanu, mndean and I have been joined by Colleen. YES!!! I scent victory on the wind… it smells like napalm in the morning… no, wait, that’s the wrong movie…
Howsomever, I’m seeing a trend, a growing demand, an imperative. Do remember what we’ll do (thanks, DSidhe) if we lose.
Oh, by the way DSidhe, when using a spoon on eyeballs I’ve always used one of those grapefruit spoons, the ones with the pointed, serrated ends.
The Star Wars Holiday Special was a Thanksgiving show not Christmas.
I’ve got to go with Polar Express if not for the creepy soul-less doll people than for the Leni Riefenstahl directed north pole scenes.
I can’t believe that no one mentioned “Christmas Vacation”for worst X-mas flick evah. Every year my relatives have to play that horrid thing when I visit. The suckage from that is surely a WMD.
The best ever Christmas movie is the Alastair Sim version of a Christmas Carol, “Scrooge”. Every time I watch it I want to go out and grab these hateful rich bastards who call themselves Christians, strap them in a chair, tape their eyelids open, and force them to watch it 100 times. It’s also beautifully acted and very funny. It’s best in black and white, of course. My son and I actually have it memorized in parts.
“Besides, it’s not my business.”
“Isn’t it, sir?”
Kirby: My partner played the drunken doctor character in an indie version of “A Junkie’s Christmas”, with a local lawyer playing the Junkie and narrating from Burroughs throughout. I absolutely love it, but I don’t think it’s ever going to see the light of day. The curse of the indie flick… We’ve seen a screening of the ocmpleted version, but don’t have a copy ourselves.
mndean, you sound like you know what you are talking about. I love this stuff, how can I contact you?
Moi, know what I’m talking about? I watch a lot of films (hardly any current Hollywood fare – I like old movies), but my opinion shouldn’t be taken as any more valid than anyone else’s here. As for the history of IAWL, I’ve read about its lack of success originally, and I’m old enough to remember its revival (the UCLA bit I’d read also, though) . Since we weren’t required to consider only badly made films (IAWL is certainly not badly made – it’s well done, which makes it all the clearer how manipulative and sodden it is. After the war, Capra didn’t go nuts exactly, but he turned into a moviemaker only Louis Mayer could love), I picked the movie that is the model of the “Christmas movie”, with plot elements and situations that recur incessantly in more recent films. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable than me would know a predecessor that’s even worse, but it’s a forgotten film now. A Christmas Carol is the other big holiday touchstone, but there have been pretty good films based on it. So anyway, I may be right or I may be full of it, and I’m sure some comment readers here think the latter :) I’ll try to leave a link, but I have no idea if it’ll work, but you can try my name at pacbell dot net.
Well, the voting seems to have tapered off, leaving IAWL as the winner, based on the heartfelt responses, if not the unrelenting insistence on it by some people in the comments section. So, in the decision process please do consider whether you want DSidhe and the rest of us to regale you with the Star Wars Holiday Special. (Have you SEEN that site? Creepy…)
Hey, Sean, you couldn’t define irony let alone give me an example of it. And ironic sounds a lot like another word that describes a cretin misfit like yourself: moronic. Get a life you fucktard.
Left by Roger Gavin on December 13th, 2006

Poor Roger, can’t even get his own insults…he has to reclycle mine.
Try looking up irony in the dictionary…unless you burned yours already.
Happy Holidaze!
I nominate “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus” (2002), a made-for-TV movie “starring” Corbin Bernsen, Connie Sellecca, and the world’s most annoying kid. I’d love to see it dissected by scott and/or s.z.

Warring on Christmas is Almost as Hard as Presidenting

I don’t know about you, but I had a hard day warring on Christmas today. First, I visited a lady with cancer who is currently undergoing chemo, and made arrangements to take her to the nursing home tomorrow to see her husband who is suffering from Alzheimer’s. We laughed together over her new hairstyle, I commiserated with her over her nausea and weakness, and we talked hopefully about better times in the future. She thanked me for the visit and for the little Santa teddy bear I had got her from the Dollar Store. Then I punched her in the gut because she didn’t wish me a “Merry Christmas.”

Next, I went to Sam’s Club and bought a large bag of Meow Mix for Shirley’s cats. Shirley, who lives across the street from my parents, is on welfare and has been having some serious health problems for a while. Her cats, which live outside and prowl the neighborhood, have been looking kinda thin and raggedy lately. So, to make me feel better, I spent $9 to buy them some food.

After ringing up my purchase and taking my money, the cashier smiled and thanked me for shopping there — but she didn’t wish me a “Merry Christmas,” so I slapped her.

After exiting the store, I gave a few bucks to the college students who were there collecting for the community food bank. They didn’t wish me a “Merry Christmas” either, so I decked them.

Then I went to Shirley’s house, put out food for the cats, and visited with Shirley for a few minutes. She was clearly touched that somebody cared about her and her cats, and thanked my several times for the cat food – but she didn’t wish me a “Merry Christmas, so I broke her thumbs.

On the way home, I stopped to see drop off some cookies I had bought for my neighbor Linda at the new Mexican bakery in town (of course, nobody THERE said “Merry Christmas” to me, so I was forced to torch their business). Linda has lost control of much of her body due to the ravages of MS, and finds it hard to speak. She did manage to tell me a little about her black cat, to tell me about what she was watching on TV (“Little House on the Prairie”), and to thank me for the cookies, but … well, you can guess the rest.

Then I came home, scooped out litter boxes, refilled water bowels, and took the dogs for a walk. I considered feeding the creatures, but they attacked me viciously by failing to say anything to me about my most cherished holiday, so they can all starve until the give me my props!

Finally, after reading Scott’s eloquent post about Annti and Lee, I did what he suggested and sent a few dollars to help Lee. While it took me only seconds to do, and was a really easy way to help someone who truly deserved it, the PayPal receipt did NOT even bid me a Festive Noel! I still haven’t decided now to avenge this act of war.

However, a visit to the Save Christmas In MA from Brad at Sadly, No! site brightened my spirits. It seems that Catholic Online did an update on the Marley brother’s efforts (“‘Scrooge stores’ hit by Coalition to Save Christmas,” and the story included this amusing passage:
Philanthropist and real estate developer Thomas J. Flatley of Milton, Mass., called to offer his help.
“I think they’re very courageous,” Flatley said in an interview with The Anchor, the Fall River, Mass., diocesan newspaper. “I’d be thrilled to have my name affiliated with anything that has to do with Christ. Why do you think this country has never had a Stalin or a Mussolini?”
Um, because our country is called “The United States of Jesus”?  Or is it because we believe in Christ, unlike the pagan Russianns or heathen Italians?
A bit later in the piece, we learn about the kind of take-charge leaders we have here in America:
“I’m always telling my kids not to cave into peer pressure,” said Mr. [Robert] Marley, who describes himself as a “field marshal type” organizer.
His marching orders to consumers: “Don’t sit back and complain. It takes five minutes. Pick up the phone, go online, find a company’s CEO and barrage him with emails.”
After all, that’s how Mussolini got the trains to run on time.
However, the best thing I learned from visiting the SaveChristmas site tonight is that people in high places are now possibly checking out Bob’s web site, seeing his endorsement of World O’Crap, and reading our blog.
Here’s how Bob broke the good news to his followers:
Today 12/05/2006 we made International News Click link
http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=22234
Look to the right of the story and click #6 for another story. We are getting more attention than we ever dreamed. The Pope must be aware of our crusade.
Yes, he certainly must — I’m sure he has nothing better to do than to read little stories in “Catholic Online” about guys in MA who are fighting Toys ‘R Us for Jesus.  (I bet the Pope is even considering canonizing these Christmas Crusaders for the great work they’ve done on behalf of Christendom by pestering mall supervisors with their greeting demands). But thank heavens this Pope hails from Germany or Mr. Flatley might be in trouble for his crack about how we Americans are way more Christian than those godless Italians.


76 Responses to “Warring on Christmas is Almost as Hard as Presidenting”

:::bows before the Mistress Of All That Is Good And Actually GETS SHIT *DONE*, as in ACTUALLY HELPING CRITTERS AND PEOPLE ALIKE, unlike just about every fucking organized religion on this fucking PLANET:::
I am but a young(ish) accolyte at thy feet, Madame/Saint S.Z. — teach me your ways, and sure as hell teach me how you find the energy to be our own personal Wonder Woman, ’cause I *so* wanna be you if I ever grow up.
“I think they’re very courageous”
Ah, yes, the courage it takes to protect a holiday nearly everybody celebrates in some fashion in a country where you believe ninety percent of the people are your religion to begin with. Those brave, brave souls.
“I’d be thrilled to have my name affiliated with anything that has to do with Christ. Why do you think this country has never had a Stalin or a Mussolini?”
I don’t know. Maybe it’s because our country is biased against guys with moustaches or against portly bald guys. I mean we never elected Groucho Marx or Dave Attell ( who actually looks a little like Benito) either. Or maybe it’s because our country is dominated by the two-party system and they couldn’t get in the debates. Or maybe it’s because your name has never been affiliated with Christ, although of the three, the last seems least likely. Their non sequiturs don’t even make sense as non sequiturs.
I see a lot of rage over a simple cause like saving Christmas, however, where is your sanctimonious rage when a black muslim stands up in America and calls for the extermination of the white race, globally I might add with out consequence. It is the arrogant ramblings of your ilk that creates a forum for such audacity. You will be the undoing of us all.
Merry Merry Merry Christmas
You “guys” should put your heads together and come up with one unified post instead of giving everyone 90 seconds at the computer to type whatever comes into each head.
Hey, it’s the Plagiarism Guys, who apparently have an enormous amount of time on their hands to Google quotes about liberals and re-post them without attribution. Attaboys! (I recognize the plagiarism the same way I recognize it in my students’ writing: the words are spelled and used correctly, and the sentences make syntactic sense, none of which matches the previously established writing style we’ve come to love so much.)
“I see a lot of rage over a simple cause like saving Christmas, however, where is your sanctimonious rage when a black muslim stands up in America and calls for the extermination of the white race, globally I might add with out consequence”
We’re not the ones boycotting and name calling and acting like tantrummy little toddlers because the big bad big box retailers didn’t say the proper, empty, meaningless greeting.
As to this mystery muslim, so what if we, The LEFT didn’t rise up with one voice to condemn him? Most blatantly stupid shit doesn’t require a specific condemnation, it is self evident that it is stupid. Plenty of uber-rightwing White Supremecist cretards have called for the extermination of all non-whites. That doesn’t mean all people right of center are somehow obligated to denounce it. Unless, of course, the person saying it is an elected official, party leader or otherwise well known mainstream figure. None of which, I imagine, applies to the phantom scary Muslim you keep trying to dun us with.
Hey Christmas Guys,
I love the Roland Barthes quotation – he really is still one of my favorite theorists.
The Spiro Agnew is, well, Spiro Agnew. Do you characters even know who Lionel Trilling is? For that matter, without going to some quotation site could you even recognize the Trilling quote. You might, however, be interested in Trilling’s comment that conservatives had no ideas “just irritable mental gestures.”
Oh, and Guys, it’s “Ann” Coulter, not Anne. If you’re going to proclaim your love for someone, at least try to get their name right.
We like to plagiarize, we don’t have to be to analytical of you guys because you have a category all your own. Therefore, with our busy schedule, it allows us to give homage to those wise people, and allows us to reiterate quickly, what is already known but might have been forgotten. Now this just wasted 2 minutes of my valuable time.
“Now this just wasted 2 minutes of my valuable time.”
Ha! You really are a funny guy! Zing! Pow!
To us its Anne.
I hope everyone here has a Merry Christmas, warmest regards
I think TCGs are really Gary Ruppert. Or a bot of some kind…
Did you all even GET the point of the post? While you’re all congratulating yourselves and thinking of yourself as most holy, because your boycotting stores who don’t wish you “Merry Christmas”, even thinking that the POPE knows about you and is impressed…well. You really don’t get it.
Look at it this way. Let’s imagine the pope is given two news articles. One is about a couple guys who are boycotting stores who aren’t going to stop using “Happy Holidays”; the other is about two women who, inspite of physical and health issues, have gone out of their way time and time again to help the poor, the sick, the suffering.
Now seriously–Which group of people would he really be more impressed with?
That’s what we are saying–we are saying that there is NO war on christmas simply because some stores use the word “Holiday” instead of christmas (just as there isn’t a war on hanukkah because no one wishes me a happy one of those, either. and I live in a Jewish neighborhood for criminey sakes!).
The day itself isn’t made or broken by the use of a single word. It will be made or broken by what people choose to do in living by the spirit of the man the holiday is now known for; rather than trying to save a holiday that is in no danger at all, use your website to save lives. Set up links that will allow your readers to send money to any of the Catholic charities that are out there–I know you know of some.
And for the love of God–stop making yourselves feel all holy and wonderful because you are trying to force people to say “Merry Christmas” to you. Because right now, that’s what it looks like the “War On Xmas” boils down to; and that makes you all look like infants.
“Now this just wasted 2 minutes of my valuable time.”
Time that they need to continue trolling lefty blogs and posting quotes without giving credit to the actual people who wrote the quotes!
These are busy busy guys!
Thanks Brian, for me this is all in fun, however, some people here get pretty mad at me. Moreover, if they were not being so nasty, I never would have said a word, but my 12-year-old nephew happened across the world of garbage and was confronted with some pretty nasty things. A lot of children are enthused by our effort and in that enthusiasm they have come across this site, many children. Prior to me linking it to our site, the kids had already discovered it. Now the parents can block it when they are done viewing it.
.
“The petty are without pity, the chastising are without charity, the arrogant are without intelligence, and the liberals own in title the aforementioned” Quote by Bob Marley
There you go, I created a new quote for you.
You guys are the lamest liars–ever.
First you scroll troll with uncredited quotes, then you claim to like “Anne” but obviously have no prior knowledge of her (other than in passing) or you would have known how she spells it(and for the record, I know her as Anthony. But that’s another story). And finally you claim kids are finding this site on their own. I would love to know how. What are they googling for when they stumble across it, and why would they stay when it obviously wasn’t what they were looking for?
You know, lying is a venial sin in the Catholic Church. Better go to confession before you do it again.
“Yea, those who would follow me must be willing to forsake all and to stand alone if they would inherit the kingdom of my Father. Or if not forsake all, at least be willing to berate a $6.00/hr Walmart clerk for not properly venerating My birthday” – Jesus
“The petty are without pity”
Like I said, who’s throwing the hissy fit about two words? And let me clairify: I don’t care if someone says Merry Christmas or not, since I’m going to have one regardless. My faith and beliefs are strong enough to withstand them not being affirmed by the Kwik-e-mart clerk.
“the chastising are without charity”
You really didn’t read S.Z. post that this thread is attached to, did you?
“the arrogant are without intelligence”
We’re not the ones claiming to have the ear of the Pope.
Hey Crumpet or dumpit, what ever it is , I’m talking about the Conservative Ann Coulter, you know, your arch enemy, the one you people like to spit at and throw things at, that one, not some guy hiding behind a woman’s name, but thanks for the heads-up on that one. (:
Brian, you don’t think the pope reads the Catholic papers? This story has been in every Catholic paper in the country. However, now the story is international, I’d say that is pretty significant.
And for all those who put forth that misleading propaganda, that there is no war on Christmas in order to hide the fact that there is, I suggest you check The United States District Court docket in you area. Or the Appellate Court dockets.
Merry Christmas
I never would have said a word, but my 12-year-old nephew happened across the world of garbage and was confronted with some pretty nasty things.
The truth, like your wives, is never pretty…
Smatter, Christmas Guys…couldn’t you answer my simple questions?
—————————
Also why should it bother you if we want Christmas restored to the public?
Left by The Christmas Guys
When was it taken?
Seriously. When did the networks STOP showing A Charlie Brown Christmas in favor of Omar’s Eid-ul-Fitr? Or Moishe’s Hannukah?
When?
When did Sears stop showing Christmas trees and Santas?
When?
Why is it so wrong to include the other small percentage of the country who also celebrate a holiday this time of year? If your sister married a Jew or a Muslim, or a black (I know, shuddering in your hood, aintcha?), you’d go out of your way to be polite and do SOMETHING inclusive, wouldn’t you?
So lemme ask you something: when did America stop being a family?
————————–
Too hard for you? I can put it in words of one syllable for you, and even translate it into “FReeper”, if that will help you…
You know one of the things I really like about Christmas — oops, I mean The Holidays — is that you can decorate your tree with nice ornaments. Why, I just saw a whole box full of cute little men made of straw…..
Can someone please explain to me exactly what it is that Christmas needs saving from? Is Christmas somehow in danger of falling off our radar? Seriously — are people going to forget it’s Christmas if they’re not constantly reminded of it? (Not that that’s even possible — you can’t go into a store this month without being incessantly bombarded with Christmas music.)
I just don’t get it.
All I want for Christmas is for Father O’Reilly to take his hand outta my pants.
bots
And for all those who put forth that misleading propaganda, that there is no war on Christmas in order to hide the fact that there is, I suggest you check The United States District Court docket in you area. Or the Appellate Court dockets.
Well, looking at the cases around here, apparently there’s a War on Stealing Cars and a War on Dealing Crack and a War on Being Poor and Black, but no War on Christmas.
Just because His Holiness is aware of something, doesn’t mean he cares. Or approves. I’m waiting for an encyclical on the subject. I suspect I’ll be waiting a long time.
And just what am I supposed to be looking for in the court dockets? Liberals v. Christmas? Secular Progressives v. All Things Good, Holy et. al.?
Here’s a radical idea: why don’t you provide an actual court case where some evil liberal is suing to eliminate all references to Christmas? I am waiting with bated breath…
I’d quote TCG, but why bother? It’s obvious from his asinine assertions that he has never, once, actually met a liberal. He’s only familiar with the Limbaugh/Coulter/Hannity/etc. demonized portrayal thereof. And, yeah, if you slurp-up that B.S., it tastes pretty crappy. But don’t confuse this odd fantasyland, where you have to be brave to be a Christian (in your 12, 000-member evangellical mega-church) with reality. Those people must be huffing rubber cement. Do I hate them? No. Do I laugh at them, because they’re pathetic jerks? Well, yeah. Who wouldn’t?
Bob Christimas Guy, I deleted your “liberals have cooties” spam when I was deleting the “Love your Site – buy Cialis” spam, and for the same reason. While cleaning things us, I accidentally deleted your “We Love Anne Coulter” post too. Sorry about that – feel free to post that one again, since it was slightly on topic, and appeared to be original.
Anyway, we know that you are a busy man, what with Christmas in need of saving and all, but if you don’t have time to think up anything on topic to say, you are free to say nothing at all. We’ll still know that you’re thinking about us.
First S.Z. I wouldn’t know how to spam anything. What I have to say I will say right here like I have. I’m right here in the open, I use my real name,I don’t hide behind some fake scree name.
Case on point. Now this should keep the readers busy for a minute while I dig up the latest cases pending before the courts.
Florey v. Sioux Falls School District (1980)
Roger Florey, an atheist, filed suit against a local school district’s holiday programs, claiming that singing of religious carols during Christmas concerts, like “Silent Night” and “O Come All Ye Faithful,” were a violation of the separation of church and state.
Lynch v. Donnelly (1983)
The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the city of Pawtucket could continue to display a nativity scene as part of its Christmas display.
County of Allegheny v. ACLU Greater Pittsburgh Chapter (1989)
The Supreme Court ruled that while a creche display on public property was unconstitutional, a menorah display on another piece of public property was not.
Bridenbaugh v. O’Bannon (1993)
According to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, a government is permitted to give employees a religious holiday off as a paid vacation day, but only if the government can provide a legitimate secular purpose for choosing that day instead of any other day.
Clever v. Cherry Hill Township (1993)
How far can a public school go when including religious symbols in school functions? According to a New Jersey District Court, any religious symbols can be used, but only so long as they are part of a legitimate, secular education program.
Capitol Square Review Board v. Pinette (1995)
Supreme Court decision holding that an unattended cross erected by the KKK on public grounds would not give the impression of government endorsement and, hence, is not a violation of the separation of church and state.
Metzl v. Leininger (1995)
Andrea Metzl, an Illinois public school teacher, filed a lawsuit to prevent the state of Illinois from (among other things) using of public funds derived from taxes that she paid to pay teachers for the Good Friday holiday.
Bauchman v. West High School (1997)
Is it a violation of the separation of church and state to make students sing Christian songs in a public school choir? According to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals, it isn’t a violation – not even if the teacher involved uses his position to promote his religion.
Ganulin v. United States (1999)
Is it constitutional for the United States government to recognize Christmas as an official paid holiday? Richard Ganulin, an atheist lawyer, argued that it isn’t and filed suit, but a U.S. District Court ruled against him.
ACLU v. Schundler (1999)
The Third Circuit Court of Appeals found that a city’s crèche and menorah display was unconstitutional when it did not have any secular symbols with it, but it became constitutional when enough secular symbols were added to a new, modified display.
Granzeier v. Middleton (1999)
Can the government take a religious holiday and make an official state holiday out of it? Is it an establishment of religion when a religious holy day becomes an official state holiday? Good Friday is a Christian Holy Day which many Christians would surely like to have off, but does that mean that governments should grant it official recognition over and above the holy days of other religions?
Koenick v. Felton (1999)
Judith M. Koenick, a former public school teacher, filed suit against the Board of Education of Montgomery County, Maryland, challenging the constitutionality of a Maryland statute providing for public school holidays on the Friday before Easter through the Monday following.
Sechler v. State College Area School District (2000)
Jarrod Sechler, a “youth pastor” at a local Christian church, filed suit against the State College Area High School because their holiday program was insufficiently Christian for him. According to a U.S. District Court, the presence of non-Christian symbols did not advance either those religions or express hostility
you know, in the old days the christmas warriors were trying to keep christmas out of walmart or whatever the equivalent was 70 years ago. and while i wouldn’t say that there were right, because they were doing so at least partly from antisemitism, they weren’t all wrong either. they recognized that the holiday was becoming secularized and they were trying to stop that process. needless to say, they failed. today in america, christmas is not a christian holiday anymore: it’s an entirely secular holiday, with its secular symbols — santa, the reindeer, the elves, the tree, the wreaths — its secular traditions of giving presents, and its secular hymns — rudolph the red-nosed reindeer, etc. — none of which have anything to do with the christian origins of the holiday (though, ironically, those left over from the pagan origins are still there). how did this happen? well, part of it was businesses who recognized that focusing ruthlessly on the gift-giving aspect was a good way to make money and secularizing the holiday ensured that everyone would celebrate it, making more money, and part of it was the christians who went out of their way to make the holiday a federal holiday, and what is more one of the most important federal holidays so that everybody has the day off and might as well celebrate somehow. atheists, liberals, and the aclu had nothing to do with it. the christmas guys probably do have some vague feeling that the holiday is just not theirs any more and they’re trying to get it back by insisting on the constant repetition of the word christmas, but this is not only unproductive, it’s counter-productive, as it only encourages the behavior that initially created the secularization. my guess is that in a while the hard-core christian types will make a break and abandon the gift-giving, santa, and the tree altogether, while the rest of us leave behind the the christian parts of the holiday (except the carols, some of those are quite nice) altogether. in the meantime, the christmas warriors will provide entertainment for us all, so it’s pretty much a win-win. and i’d close by wishing the christmas guys merry christmas, but since christmas is not for 19 days it seems a little premature.
Never assume anything.
Oh, wait, I see. TCG is attempting to bait us into making the nasty comments about Christmas that he’s having trouble finding on his own. Ah. Much this explains it does, yes, mmMMmmmMMMmmmm! Don’t give in to teh dark side with Mr. “White people are being out-reproduced, waaaahhhh!!1!” (ah, teh classix–dark side of white supremacy–har!). And, speaking of projection, Good Grief! Should we point him toward The R**e P*****t? Nah, that’d be too mean… to tha P****t.
Um… you don’t understand the meaning of the word, “pending,” do you, Bob?
More food for thought.
The ACLU Targets Christmas
The ACLU is at it again. With an outrageous boldness that only they could muster, the ACLU has, once again, set their sights on Christmas celebrations. In their never-ending quest to completely eradicate all things religious from public life, the ACLU’s latest lawsuit is an all-out frontal attack on the freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion.
Let me ask you—when did a children’s Christmas program become “an illegal activity”? When did the nativity story and Christmas songs become unconstitutional? This is the outrageous and dangerous charge the ACLU has leveled against a school district in Tennessee. A children’s Christmas program has been deemed to be an “illegal act” because of the ACLU.
This week, our senior attorneys at the American Center for Law and Justice are working on this latest ACLU case. The ACLU is absolutely determined to censor Christmas. They have sued the Wilson County School System outside of Nashville, TN. We represent several school officials and teachers who have been charged with engaging in what the ACLU calls “illegal acts.” The ACLU claims that the plaintiffs have been harmed, injured and “suffered irreparable damage” through the Christmas program because of its “Christian themes and songs.” The ACLU will then ask for these actions be declared “unconstitutional and illegal.”
It gets even worse. The plaintiffs and the ACLU allege that several kindergarten students role-played a nativity scene of the birth of Jesus—and had the audacity to sing “Away in the Manger” and “Joy to the World.” According to the ACLU, these songs are exclusively Christian in nature because they celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ and are, therefore, inappropriate. School programs that include a live nativity scene and the singing of songs like “Away in a Manger” are common throughout the United States and, indeed, around the world. Thousands of school students will be participating in similar programs this year. The ACLU has, once again, shown its desire to engage in censorship.
Of course, if the ACLU wins this case, it would set a precedent from across the nation. This is precisely why we have engaged some of our most senior lawyers to defend school officials in this important case. Make no mistake about it—the ACLU will not stop with this lawsuit. They may come to your town and target your school. Their continued attempts to loosen the threads of our religious heritage and chip away at the foundation of our freedom is never-ending.
We, at the American Center for Law and Justice, will fight for religious freedom and freedom of speech this Christmas. We are standing with the school officials in Wilson County and with concerned students and parents. We will vigorously defend the rights of these students to engage in free speech on public school campuses. We are not going to sit back and let the ACLU, the Ghost of Christmas Past, remove the joy and significance of this holiday season.
Today the American Center for Law and Justice has launched a nationwide campaign entitled “Keep HIM in Christmas.” We want to make sure that Jesus is at the center of this holiday. We want to keep HIM in the nativity scenes, keep HIM in the music, keep HIM as the focal point—and not allow the ACLU to operate as our nationwide censor.
Van Orden vs. Perry, (2004)
By a vote of 5-4, the Supreme Court on June 27, 2005 overturned a federal appeals court clearing the way for the constitutional display of thousands of monuments that have been in place across America. The decision came in a case in Texas where the Fraternal Order of Eagles donated a Commandments monument which has been in place outside the state capitol in Austin since 1961. The ACLJ filed an amicus brief at the high court asking the Justices to overturn a lower court decision declaring the monument unconstitutional. In its decision, the high court said the Eagles monument was constitutionally permissible.
McCreary County vs. ACLU, (2004)
By a vote of 5-4, the Supreme Court on June 27, 2005 upheld a lower court decision declaring the posting of copies of the Ten Commandments in the courthouses of two Kentucky counties to be unconstitutional. The ACLJ filed amicus briefs in support of the constitutionality of the displays which were declared unconstitutional by a federal district and federal appeals courts.
DeWeese v. ACLU of Ohio, (2004)
The Supreme Court on June 28, 2005 declined to take the ACLJ case out of Ohio where a poster of the Ten Commandments inside the courtroom of state Judge James DeWeese was declared unconstitutional. The lower court decision declaring the poster unconstitutional stands.
ACLU of Ohio v. Adams County, (2004)
The Supreme Court on June 28, 2005 declined to take the case out of Ohio where the ACLJ represents the Adams County school board which was sued for permitting a local ministerial association to erect monuments on school property which contain the Ten Commandments. After suit was filed, the Board changed the display into a Foundations of American Law and Government display which includes several other influential texts. A federal district court ruled in favor of the ACLU, and that decision was upheld by a federal appeals court. The high court declined to take the case and the lower court decision stands.
Seriously, did you read those cases you posted? I can’t hlp but notice that in almost all of them, the so-called anti-christmas party lost. And, I also can’t help but notice that none of those cases are current. Some are 26 years old. Christmas seems to have held up pretty well, regardless though.
As for the bullshit anti-ACLU screed, the ACLU has done more to protect religious freedom in this country than any other group. They just want it to remain free. IE., not on the taxpayer’s nickel and under Gubmint control. What conservatives really hate about the ACLU is that it supports the rights of other religions as well as Christianity.
Let me know when you guys have read enough.
Christmas Wars Intensify: Christians Asked to “Retake the Public Square for Christmas”
ANN ARBOR, MI, November 15, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – For the last several years, the Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest laws firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan has been successfully defending the right of Christians to display nativity scenes on public property and to celebrate Christmas in public schools. This year it has asked thousands of supporters to go on the offensive-where there has been no nativity display before, ask the government for permission to erect one; where the government has allowed a religious display of another faith, ask that a nativity display be erected on the same property as well; where there is a public forum for the exercise of free speech, ask for permission to erect a nativity display.
Commented Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Law Center, “The ACLU war on Christmas is really a war on Christians. With few exceptions and then only to create a diversion from their real target, the ACLU avoids going after religious symbols of other faiths. Despite the fact over 80 percent of Americans are Christians, the ACLU has bullied elected representatives and school officials to eradicate the public celebration of Christmas under threat of lawsuits. Municipalities and schools should be aware that the systematic exclusion of Christmas symbols during the holiday season is not warranted, and such exclusion itself could be inconsistent with the Constitution and subject them to a possible lawsuit.”
More than a dozen files have been opened for possible litigation and more are expected. Moreover, several requests to erect Nativity displays are pending before local governments in several states.
Later this month, the United Sates Supreme Court will decide whether to grant review of a Thomas More Law Center case, Andrea Skoros v. City of New York. In that case, a sharply divided panel of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the right of New York City schools to discriminate against Christian symbols while specifically allowing Jewish and Islamic symbols. New York City school policy allows the display of the menorah during the Jewish holiday of Chanukah, and the Islamic star and crescent during the Muslim commemoration of Ramadan, but specifically excludes Nativity displays during Christmas – a nationally recognized legal holiday by both the Executive branch and Legislative branch, as well as a legal holiday for the State of New York.
In another Law Center case, the Third Circuit Court of Appeals recently reversed a lower court decision that had dismissed a complaint filed by the Law Center challenging a New Jersey school district’s total ban on Christmas music, including simple instrumentals. The Law Center’s complaint alleged that the school district’s ban on religious music conveys an impermissible government-sponsored message of hostility toward religion in violation of the Establishment Clause. The Third Circuit agreed that the Law Center’s complaint stated a constitutional claim and ordered that the case continue, reversing the lower court.
As part of its Christmas Campaign, the Law Center has asked its supporters to petition their local governments in writing for permission to erect nativity displays. Law Center staff attorneys are standing by to assist in the petition, and if legally appropriate, to file a federal lawsuit should they be denied. Moreover, the Law Center has asked its several hundred affiliated attorneys across the nation to assist in this year’s Christmas Campaign.
In 1984, Chief Justice Warren Burger had this to say in his opinion upholding the city of Pawtucket, Rhode Island’s nativity display:
“It would be ironic, however, if the inclusion of a single symbol of a particular historic religious event, as part of a celebration acknowledged in the Western World for 20 centuries, and in this country by the people, by the Executive Branch, by the Congress, and the courts for two centuries, would so ‘taint’ the City’s exhibit as to render it violative of the Establishment Clause. To forbid the use of this one passive symbol-the crèche-at the very time people are taking note of the season with Christmas hymns and carols in public schools and other public places, and while the Congress and Legislatures open sessions with prayers by paid chaplains would be a stilted over-reaction contrary to our history and to our holdings. If the presence of the crèche in this display violates the Establishment Clause, a host of other forms of taking official note of Christmas, and of our religious heritage, are equally offensive to the Constitution.”
According to the Law Center:
· A government body may constitutionally display a nativity scene on public property so long as the display includes secular items.
· The display of a nativity scene, as with any religious symbol, by a private person is religious speech that the First Amendment protects.
· The First Amendment protects private speech most strongly in a traditional public forum, such as a public park, or in what is known as a designated public forum, which is public property the government has designated for public assembly and speech,
· There should be no unreasonable prohibitions against public school students wishing each other “Merry Christmas,” distributing Christmas cards, or wearing clothing displaying a religious message.
· It is constitutionally permissible for schools to permit the study and performance of religious songs in its public schools, in order to promote the legitimate educational goal of “advancing the students’ knowledge of society’s cultural and religious heritage.”
Oh, I forgot there is no war on Christmas or Christianity in this country, this is what you must mean by the illusion of the war on Christmas. You guys better give it a rest.
“Can’t we all just get along” I wonder who coined that phrase.
Brian, you know as well as I do, that this has been going on a lot longer than 26 years, do I have to go back to its conception, 1947 I believe.
Do you mean to tell me that it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for students in public schools to wish each other “Merry Christmas”?? My God, what is this country coming to!!! It’s war, I tell you, war!
Yeah, well I’d like my Solstice celebration back – you guys have had it for more than 2000 years. Fair’s fair, don’t you think? Go rip off somebody else’s holiday for a change…
More than a dozen files have been opened for possible litigation and more are expected.
Doesn’t the right wing usually decry “frivolous lawsuits”? I guess they’re only frivolous when someone ends up mangled. And these are, by contrast, crucially important, because they involve plastic statues.
Thats my point, Xmas Guys. If Christmas has been under such a horrible assault for so long, how is it that anyone still celebrates it? Can you tell me one person who has been kept from celebrating Christmas? And I don’t in public, on the public square. I mean, in their homes, churches and hearts.
That Skoros case is bad law, the appeals court was wrong, and hopefully SCOTUS strikes it down. But the fact that the NYC DOE has a badly thought out policy on creches does not mean that Christmas is on the verge of being destroyed. I mean, for God’s sake, have you seen Rockefeller Plaza? I think that even in that terrible, godless Liberal city of New York, Christmas is going strong.
But, whatever. You’re not going to change your tune because this bogus War on Christmas is making you money and fame. I am done arguing with you because it’s a waste of space, and your the only one here that agrees with you.
Tell you what, if the AtheistIslamoCommie coup occurs, and we’re sent to the gulag together, I’ll smuggle you in some egg nog and a candy cane and admit you were right along. But I’m not too worried.
So please, have a Merry Christmas, really. I know I will. And I will for a long time.
this has been going on a lot longer than 26 years, do I have to go back to its conception, 1947 I believe
59 inconclusive years? That’s a pretty ineffective war. Is Donald Rumsfeld running this one too?
I see a lot of rage over a simple cause like saving Christmas,
That isn’t rage, mate. It’s derision.
“Scorn and defiance; slight regard, contempt,
And any thing that may not misbecome
The mighty sender, doth he prize you at.”
s.z.
Just Thank You for doing good. Sounds like you’re a bright light for a few people around you, which is probably the highest calling i can think of.
A fan.
I’m sure you mean ‘papist Italians’
When did encouraging people to not be dickweeds become persecution? Did I miss the memo on that one?
See, here’s the thing. I don’t care what people wish me this time of year. What I care about is the spirit behind the wish. I’d much rather have someone wish me Happy Holidays in true sincerity than I would have Merry Christmas flung at me in a spiteful game of spiritual one-upsmanship. And that’s what this whole War on Christmas thing feels like to me. It reminds me just a bit too much of a customer at the indy bookshop I worked at who, upon learning we didn’t have the full run of some cotton-candy fundamentalist romance novels, decided that we were part of some secularist plot to keep wholesome soft-core sex books from her teenage daughter and got verbally abusive. Her closing shot “well God bless you anyway” was an unmistakable “fuck you.” It took most of my self control not reply in the same spirit.
That was back in my hillbilly days, now I’m living in a rust belt city with the full panoply of religions, races, and creeds. The nearest Target is in an area that’s got a mix of african-americans, orthodox jews, and few catholics, mostly irish. Now, maybe I’m a demented grinchy sec-pro (my rector down to the cathedral would be surprised to hear that but hey if Fox News says it’s true who are the Gospels to say otherwise) but I think that Target should be able to tell its staff that they can’t just assume a customer is celebrating Christmas. That nice woman with the 5 kids under 7 could just as easily be Orthodox as she could Catholic. You don’t know for sure, so unless you do know why is Happy Holidays the wrong thing to say? Why is pausing to consider another’s feelings the wrong thing to do?
And if you do know, say it’s obvious that the aforementioned nice lady is wearing a wig and she’s got a chaim or a star of david on a necklace, and you go forward with Merry Christmas anyway, well then you’re being an asshole. You’re not wishing her any joys of the season, you’re wishing her a fuck you. And Target ought to be able to tell its staff that they can’t do that.
These people, they’re turning Merry Christmas into an assault. It’s not about protecting Christmas or celebrating the Christlike ideal; it’s about turning a holy day into a profane attempt to bully and dominate. It’s about making themselves feel big by making others feel small. It’s sinful. It’s wrong.
These tools are all giggly over what the Pope might think or how Fox and Friends think they’re cool. It’s the on-line equivalent of a 14 year old girls spiral bound notebook covered with Mrs. Bob Marley-Pope written in different styles of curley-Q cursive with hearts drawn around it and Fawks Rawks!11!! in metal script.
Maybe they ought to be more concerned with what God thinks.
Christmas Guys, you are johnny-come-latelys to this blog, so it probably hasn’t dawned on you that s.z. wasn’t making up all that stuff she posted about doing for others. I don’t know if she did it all in one day or in exactly that sequence–I don’t know, maybe she can tell us if she feels like it–but she is, in fact, that giving and indefatigable a person. You should be ashamed to come here and sanctimoniously malign her blog, and in the name of Jesus yet. All you’re doing is attention-seeking and using Christmas to rail against an imaginary enemy, you bunch of Scrooges.
I’ve already had my fun with TCG–but I’d just like to note that, in another thread, this genius had declared he was leaving this site and never coming back THREE times when I stopped counting.
Attention whores and their addiction–it’s sad, in a can’t-stop-snickering kind of way. TCG mixes attention-whoring with his Christian persecution complex for a unbeatable hilarity combo.
Happy Holidays!
Same to you! And let’s put the X back in Xmas this year! :D
“Scorn and defiance; slight regard, contempt,
And any thing that may not misbecome
The mighty sender, doth he prize you at.”
Left by ajay on December 6th, 2006
Yeah, but you forgot the best part:
“What treasure, uncle?”
“Tennis-balls, my liege.”
Later,
“Say, if my father render fair return, It is against my will; for I desire Nothing but odds with England: to that end,
As matching to his youth and vanity, I did present him with the Paris balls.”
Merry Ballmas to one and all!
s.z., you are made of awesome. It’s very telling that TCGs have not said anything about your good deeds, even when prompted by other commenters.
I say to you, TCG, and every other reader of this fine blog what I say to everyone I meet – have a good holiday.
Italy, Catholic Newspapaer Mussolini, Pope, Rome, Brain hurt forced to communicate in fractured sentences.
Let me know when you guys have read enough.
When.
where is your sanctimonious rage when a black muslim stands up in America and calls for the extermination of the white race, globally I might add with out consequence.
Please check here first, Chritmas Ghouls.
His marching orders to consumers: “Don’t sit back and complain. It takes five minutes. Pick up the phone, go online, find a company’s CEO and barrage him with emails.”
Don’t just complain! Go complain some more!
Let’s put the Saturn back in Saturnalia!
Happy Hoppin’ Hippie Holidays to all; whether you want it or not.
I have to say, they all sure bugged out quick. Christmas is clearly in dire straits if the Warriors are exhausted after a mere three days of trolling.
Maybe he was just arrested. Upthread, it sure sounded like he was inciting to riot, with his “go on teh offensive!!1!” horse poo. And, inciting to riot is against the law.
These people, they’re turning Merry Christmas into an assault. It’s not about protecting Christmas or celebrating the Christlike ideal; it’s about turning a holy day into a profane attempt to bully and dominate. It’s about making themselves feel big by making others feel small. It’s sinful. It’s wrong.
These tools are all giggly over what the Pope might think or how Fox and Friends think they’re cool. It’s the on-line equivalent of a 14 year old girls spiral bound notebook covered with Mrs. Bob Marley-Pope written in different styles of curley-Q cursive with hearts drawn around it and Fawks Rawks!11!! in metal script.
Maybe they ought to be more concerned with what God thinks.

Left by Cornfed on December 6th, 2006
Hear, hear! Thanks, Cornfed.
Add my thanks, Cornfed. Also, I loved you on Duckman.
Marq, it’s entirely possible. It’s certainly more likely than Option B, which is “They all felt ashamed of themselves for wasting their time and money this season on something so goddamned stupid and went off to help someone in need”. Still, one lives in hope.
I think Cornfed’s comment deserves a medal of some sort, but you all have been great. God, I love this blog!!!
Still waiting for an answer to my questions, Christmas Guys…
You wouldn’t happen to be fearful of debating l’il ole me, now would you? *batting eyelids*
*polishing up “Clergy” badge*
We ordained Christian ministers are pussycats, darlings…
Thanks for the kind words folks. I’ll try to speak up more often although, of course, the spewing of bile is never a permanent solution.
D. Sidhe, I’e been trying to get the series out on DVD but Duckman insists that it has to be a special edition set with a complimentary inflatable woman and the good people Klasky Csupo won’t go for it.
[...] You know what bugs me? The War on Christmas people. “Put the Christ back in Christmas,” and “Remember the reason for the season.” Holy crap. The reason for the season is the Sun, people. Jesus was probably born in April. [...]
“Can someone please explain to me exactly what it is that Christmas needs saving from? …”
Dan Someone,
I’d be happy to oblige. Christmas needs saving from the same horror which traditional marriage needs to be defended from. Hope that clears things up!
And Cornfed, I echo the kudos!
Perhaps the spewing of bile is not a permanent solution, but I find it helps from time to time. If nothing else, it lets me make my unpleasant first reactions in front of trolls, who are unlikely to ever be persuaded by reasonable discussion, so that I can attempt said reasonable discussion with family members, who may be.
And, the inflatable doll is okay, but please, none of those stupid cheap plastic head-shaped cases The Simpsons started doing. They don’t fit in my rack, and they get brittle and crack if you don’t maintain archival vault environmental conditions.
Wow, I thought the war on Xmas was made up, but I can’t argue with this:
Sechler v. State College Area School District (2000)
Jarrod Sechler, a “youth pastor” at a local Christian church, filed suit against the State College Area High School because their holiday program was insufficiently Christian for him. According to a U.S. District Court, the presence of non-Christian symbols did not advance either those religions or express hostility
SAVE US JESUS! At no point was the pastor allowed to storm into the school, track down the kids who were wishing each other happy holidays, and haul them off to reeducation camps, so we clarly have a problem here. We also have no clear mechanism to infiltrate kids’ brains, kill their brain cells and make them stop asking stuff their teachers stuff like, “Why do we have to sing these Christmas songs? There is a separation of Church and State, you know!” so our entire way of life is in danger.
There is an international War on Christmas!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1967368,00.html
I just can’t wrap my brain around this argument. When O’Leilly started this absurdity I thought it would ruin him with ridicule. And now there are threads on numerous blogs trying to combat this nonsense.
WTF? How did our national discourse plummet so quickly as to argue about a phantom War on a Random Holiday?
We are better than this, bigger than this, above this. Ignore them if at all possible, as these are the fake issues that take our attention away from Iraq, national health care and a host of other issues. Ignore these morons.
It’s incredibly Orwellian: We’ve always been at war with Christmas.
Oh, and BTW Christmas Idiots…it’s spelled ‘vile’ not ‘vial’.
Ever thought of taking some ESL courses?
Why do you think this country has never had a Stalin or a Mussolini?”
Um, because our country is called “The United States of Jesus”? Or is it because we believe in Christ, unlike the pagan Russianns or heathen Italians?
You gotta understand that for these wackos, Catholics (Eastern Orthodox or Roman) aren’t really Christians. Remember the Bob Jones University kerfuffle.
s.z. you are kind, generous, and compassionate. I’d be proud to call you my friend.
Nice Post.
That was well said. Always appreciate your indepth views. Keep up the great work!
John