As I’m sure you all know, Bill “Some of My Best Friends are Colored People” O’Reilly has been getting some criticism just because he mentioned his amazement over the fact that black-owned restaurants are NO DIFFERENT than other dining places, such as Italian-owned restaurants. Sure, every now and then you’re gonna have a mob-hit or a gang shoot-out in either establishment, but hey, they both have tables and serve food and such, and that’s what makes America great.
Well, Bill said it better than I could:
You know, I was up in Harlem a few weeks ago, and I actually had dinner with Al Sharpton, who is a very, very interesting guy. … And we went to Sylvia’s, a very famous restaurant in Harlem.And I couldn’t get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia’s restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it’s run by blacks, primarily black patronship. It was the same, and that’s really what this society’s all about now here in the U.S.A. There’s no difference. There’s no difference. There may be a cultural entertainment — people may gravitate toward different cultural entertainment, but you go down to Little Italy, and you’re gonna have that. It has nothing to do with the color of anybody’s skin.
Now does that sound racist to you? (Don’t answer, as your thoughts were no doubt paid for by George Soros and his evil minions at Media Matters.)
Anyway, Bill is now fighting back, claiming that CNN has “gone to the dark side” and joined his vast army of enemies, which now includes virtually every person in the world with an IQ above 90.
But the best part of Bill’s defense is his explanation of how a transcript of his own words was once again smearing him: see, it’s all his dead, racist grandmother’s fault.
Here’s Bill, explaining how his radio remarks came to be:
We had you [black person Juan Williams] on because your book, Enough, which is now out in paperback, is a very intelligent discussion about racism in America, and to set up your appearance, I told l people about my grandmother and how she feared blacks even though she didn’t know any blacks.And then I proceeded to tell the audience how ridiculous the fear was by recounting a story about me going to Sylvia’s restaurant in Harlem with Al Sharpton.
So, Bill’s astonishment over the fact that one can have a quiet meal in a black-owned restaurant was meant as a stern rebuke to dead grandma, and everybody else is the racist for not seeing that Bill is the good guy here.
And the media is missing the point that this whole mess is grandma’s fault for fearing black people, even though there weren’t any of them in the squalid, poverty-stricken upper-middleclass neighborhood where Bill’s family lived. Also, the smearers failed to pick up on the fact that all Bill was doing was telling dead Grandma that he had actually broken bread with a black person, and how wonderful it was to learn that they don’t practice cannibalism these days.
Anyway, I hope Dead Grandma feels properly put in her place by Bill’s story about his lunch with Al Sharpton, and I hope everybody else now realizes that Bill isn’t a racist. I also hope that we all learned a valuable lesson from Bill about how black people are just PEOPLE, and how one can eat in a black-owned restaurant and live to tell the tale.
40 Responses to “The “Blame the Dead Grandmother” Defense”
Wow, Bill-O must be one pretty brave chap, eating in a restaurant full of… well-behaved black people.
Guess he doesn’t get down to Washington, D.C., often! Last time I dined at The Palm, in our group were several black executives, and at the next table were eight beautifully dressed people of color. All had impeccable table manners and treated the waitstaff and parking valets with courtesy. No iced tea was ordered with the MF word; the black diners conversed knowledgeably with the sommeliers over their choices of wine.
Bill-O, had he been there, would have called it a fluke.
Guess he doesn’t get down to Washington, D.C., often! Last time I dined at The Palm, in our group were several black executives, and at the next table were eight beautifully dressed people of color. All had impeccable table manners and treated the waitstaff and parking valets with courtesy. No iced tea was ordered with the MF word; the black diners conversed knowledgeably with the sommeliers over their choices of wine.
Bill-O, had he been there, would have called it a fluke.
Imus apologized for his comments. BillO ought to shut the fuck up already.
Hey, Bill! What’s next? Gonna say “Some of my best friends are negroes”?
Hey, Bill! What’s next? Gonna say “Some of my best friends are negroes”?
Madam Biscuitbarrel,
I suspect BillO thought every black who could afford to eat out was Fitty Cent.
I suspect BillO thought every black who could afford to eat out was Fitty Cent.
I told l people about my grandmother and how she feared blacks even though she didn’t know any blacks.
And then I proceeded to tell the audience how ridiculous the fear was by recounting a story about me going to Sylvia’s restaurant in Harlem with Al Sharpton
Bill O, really, even if this really was your motive (and I ain’t bettin’ the falafel factory this is the case, either), who really cares what your dead granny thought about black people? She’s dead, she’s anonymous, she has nothing to add to the discussion. Frankly, it is disgusting that he would invoke the name of a loved one who has passed to cover his own stupidity. Come on, show us some of that responsibility the rest of us supposedly lack.
And then I proceeded to tell the audience how ridiculous the fear was by recounting a story about me going to Sylvia’s restaurant in Harlem with Al Sharpton
Bill O, really, even if this really was your motive (and I ain’t bettin’ the falafel factory this is the case, either), who really cares what your dead granny thought about black people? She’s dead, she’s anonymous, she has nothing to add to the discussion. Frankly, it is disgusting that he would invoke the name of a loved one who has passed to cover his own stupidity. Come on, show us some of that responsibility the rest of us supposedly lack.
The odd thing about all of this is, if he’d had this epiphany at, say, age ten, it would have been an interesting overcoming-our-ignorant-upbringing moment. I’m sure we all had “Hey, these people are nothing like what I’ve been told” revelations, but the baseline of decent humanity is to go find these things out before you’ve spent a lifetime stewing in your bigotry and infecting others with it.
The best part was when he said that the fact that the experience was no different from eating in any other restaraunt was evidence that black people are “getting away” from Al Sharpton, even though Sharpton was one of those surprisingly well-behaved black people in the restaraunt that night.
OT: Annti update
“Her spine surgery was scheduled for about 8 a.m., commenced at noon, and was unsuccessful. It seems that an abdominal approach will be required so that is scheduled for Friday.”
“Her spine surgery was scheduled for about 8 a.m., commenced at noon, and was unsuccessful. It seems that an abdominal approach will be required so that is scheduled for Friday.”
Ugh, poor Annti. I’ll have my fingers crossed for her till then.
See here - I’m a raving radical lefty, but I listened to this clip and, while some of the analysis bandied about was somewhat lacking, I’m kinda surprised that people are taking issue with this. It seems to me that Bill’s “I couldn’t get over the fact…” line was a rhetorical flourish (possibly ill-advised, but look who he’s talking to), and the import of what he was saying was fairly admirable.
The guy says jaw-droppingly hateful things on a fairly regular basis - I can’t see the virtue on making an issue of this. At worst, he displays a bit of genuine ignorance. This was not some racist screed - his point seemed to be that mainstream black culture is not well represented by hiphop. This may not be worth mentioning to you and your audience, but I think it’s probably a good thing that Bill is making this point to his audience.
This is a gotcha moment. I don’t care for this sort of trick when the other side plays it, and it doesn’t look any better when it’s coming from people I normally agree with. I hate to defend Bill, but you’ve got to let him go on this one.
The guy says jaw-droppingly hateful things on a fairly regular basis - I can’t see the virtue on making an issue of this. At worst, he displays a bit of genuine ignorance. This was not some racist screed - his point seemed to be that mainstream black culture is not well represented by hiphop. This may not be worth mentioning to you and your audience, but I think it’s probably a good thing that Bill is making this point to his audience.
This is a gotcha moment. I don’t care for this sort of trick when the other side plays it, and it doesn’t look any better when it’s coming from people I normally agree with. I hate to defend Bill, but you’ve got to let him go on this one.
The guy says jaw-droppingly hateful things on a fairly regular basis - I can’t see the virtue on making an issue of this. At worst, he displays a bit of genuine ignorance.
I mean to say that in this instance he merely displays genuine ignorance and it isn’t worth making an issue of. When he spews hateful nonsense he’s displaying something far worse than simple ignorance and we should all condemn/mock him soundly.
I mean to say that in this instance he merely displays genuine ignorance and it isn’t worth making an issue of. When he spews hateful nonsense he’s displaying something far worse than simple ignorance and we should all condemn/mock him soundly.
The ignorance in this case *is* hateful. A fifty eight year old man should not still be surprised to discover that any random minority consists of people who behave like the majority.
You can call it a rhetorical flourish if you like, but he’s a professional communicator. If he communicates poorly, whose fault is that? His career is based on “rhetorical flourishes” followed by howls that he’s been taken out of context. He should probably be held accountable for them once in a while, and he hasn’t been yet. Al Franken’s and Keith Olbermann’s names may make him twitch a bit, but he still has the same successful career he had before he said any of the aforementioned hateful things, and he is still respected by people who should know better, and he is still unapologetic.
Frankly, if we have to wait another fifty eight years before he has some sort of dramatic “Hey, I can apologize when I offend people, even if I didn’t do it on purpose” moment, we’re in trouble.
Also, “See here” to a group of people who don’t know you from Bill’s left sock is not a persuasive way to start what looks very much like concern trolling. I’d like a little evidence before I believe you to be a raving radical lefty.
Myself, as a raving radical lefty (you may find evidence of this in comments on this blog and at the link on my name), I would like to note that I have plenty of time to condemn/mock O’Reilly soundly when he says both jaw-droppingly hateful things and jaw-droppingly ignorant things. I suspect you’ll find that we here have condemned/mocked (especially the mockery) him often over all sorts of idiotic and mean-spirited things he’s said.
Are we really not allowed to mock him just because this isn’t as bad as inviting bin Laden to attack California or suggesting a black boys’ choir was stealing hubcaps?
There’s a certain baseline decency/empathy I require before I start applauding people for their decency/empathy. A ten year old telling me he’s discovered black people don’t say “motherfucker” while ordering iced tea is to be commended for having learned two of life’s great lessons: other people are pretty much just like you, and you shouldn’t believe everything you see in movies.
It is less charming in a man on the far side of forty. It should not have taken him that long to realize this, and I have no interest in congratulating him on having arrived at a point he should have reached decades ago.
The bottom line is this: O’Reilly is an extremely public person–by choice–who uses his extreme public exposure more or less exclusively to whip up hatred against raving radical lefties–which he seems to define as anyone to the left of Rudy Giuliani. If every dishonest, ugly, hypocritical, ignorant, or inaccurate thing he says has to be exposed for what it is in order to expose *him* for what *he* is, I’m good with that. I’ve got time, and, thanks to the current political climate (for example, the parts where I and people like me are routinely referred to as psychopaths or traitors by radio bloviators) I’ve got the outrage to spare, too.
You can call it a rhetorical flourish if you like, but he’s a professional communicator. If he communicates poorly, whose fault is that? His career is based on “rhetorical flourishes” followed by howls that he’s been taken out of context. He should probably be held accountable for them once in a while, and he hasn’t been yet. Al Franken’s and Keith Olbermann’s names may make him twitch a bit, but he still has the same successful career he had before he said any of the aforementioned hateful things, and he is still respected by people who should know better, and he is still unapologetic.
Frankly, if we have to wait another fifty eight years before he has some sort of dramatic “Hey, I can apologize when I offend people, even if I didn’t do it on purpose” moment, we’re in trouble.
Also, “See here” to a group of people who don’t know you from Bill’s left sock is not a persuasive way to start what looks very much like concern trolling. I’d like a little evidence before I believe you to be a raving radical lefty.
Myself, as a raving radical lefty (you may find evidence of this in comments on this blog and at the link on my name), I would like to note that I have plenty of time to condemn/mock O’Reilly soundly when he says both jaw-droppingly hateful things and jaw-droppingly ignorant things. I suspect you’ll find that we here have condemned/mocked (especially the mockery) him often over all sorts of idiotic and mean-spirited things he’s said.
Are we really not allowed to mock him just because this isn’t as bad as inviting bin Laden to attack California or suggesting a black boys’ choir was stealing hubcaps?
There’s a certain baseline decency/empathy I require before I start applauding people for their decency/empathy. A ten year old telling me he’s discovered black people don’t say “motherfucker” while ordering iced tea is to be commended for having learned two of life’s great lessons: other people are pretty much just like you, and you shouldn’t believe everything you see in movies.
It is less charming in a man on the far side of forty. It should not have taken him that long to realize this, and I have no interest in congratulating him on having arrived at a point he should have reached decades ago.
The bottom line is this: O’Reilly is an extremely public person–by choice–who uses his extreme public exposure more or less exclusively to whip up hatred against raving radical lefties–which he seems to define as anyone to the left of Rudy Giuliani. If every dishonest, ugly, hypocritical, ignorant, or inaccurate thing he says has to be exposed for what it is in order to expose *him* for what *he* is, I’m good with that. I’ve got time, and, thanks to the current political climate (for example, the parts where I and people like me are routinely referred to as psychopaths or traitors by radio bloviators) I’ve got the outrage to spare, too.
Sorry McWyrm but Bill-O hasn’t earned enough points on the humanity meter to render any more empathy than what I can fit under my thumbnail.
He has made a career out of encouraging and affirming the most torrid racist stereotypes, stereotypes that might I mention have caused people of color to be subjects of mass terrorism and institutional oppression for the last couple centuries.
Slavery legally ended over a century ago, Jim Crow supposedly died with the civil rights movement. But institutionalized and cultural racial oppression are alive and well and mostly thanks to people like Bill-O.
His announcement on his show of astonishment at the Harlem resturant’s patron’s civility only taunts and pulls at the strings of racism, it does nothing to dispel it. “Can you believe it?” as if the people of color being civil is some notable exception.
No, its not ok and frankly, there are many among us white folks, like myself, who saw people of color as humans far sooner than ten years of age. I think S.D. is being rather kind in that stretch. Frankly I resent the assumption that all white people have to make some kind of leap outside of their regular development to see people with dark skin as human. That assumption is racist on its face.
And this is the assumption that statements like Bill-O’s come from, the assumption that “Hey, you don’t have to talk to THEM because I did it for you! Let me tell you what they said, how they dressed, how they acted so you don’t have to.”
Sorry, but that’s racism. Its racist for Bill-O to assume that the default white experience is like his; intentionally sheltered and intentionally ignorant of people different from himself; that his world is the defacto reality and everything outside that is only for consumption in the self appointed ruling class’ spare time.
That’s how racism and classism persist; the assumption by the news media and all other popular outlets of cultural ‘mainstreaming’ that support the defacto white middle class world and ignore the rest. The rest are not worth consideration on a daily basis, or within the world of what is considered the norm.
That Bill-O thinks he deserves some kind of accolade for announcing that he has now adjudged a few people in Harlem as fitting of membership in the human race is bullshit.
He has no authority to make such judgements and when he claims to do so, I will there to call bullshit.
He has made a career out of encouraging and affirming the most torrid racist stereotypes, stereotypes that might I mention have caused people of color to be subjects of mass terrorism and institutional oppression for the last couple centuries.
Slavery legally ended over a century ago, Jim Crow supposedly died with the civil rights movement. But institutionalized and cultural racial oppression are alive and well and mostly thanks to people like Bill-O.
His announcement on his show of astonishment at the Harlem resturant’s patron’s civility only taunts and pulls at the strings of racism, it does nothing to dispel it. “Can you believe it?” as if the people of color being civil is some notable exception.
No, its not ok and frankly, there are many among us white folks, like myself, who saw people of color as humans far sooner than ten years of age. I think S.D. is being rather kind in that stretch. Frankly I resent the assumption that all white people have to make some kind of leap outside of their regular development to see people with dark skin as human. That assumption is racist on its face.
And this is the assumption that statements like Bill-O’s come from, the assumption that “Hey, you don’t have to talk to THEM because I did it for you! Let me tell you what they said, how they dressed, how they acted so you don’t have to.”
Sorry, but that’s racism. Its racist for Bill-O to assume that the default white experience is like his; intentionally sheltered and intentionally ignorant of people different from himself; that his world is the defacto reality and everything outside that is only for consumption in the self appointed ruling class’ spare time.
That’s how racism and classism persist; the assumption by the news media and all other popular outlets of cultural ‘mainstreaming’ that support the defacto white middle class world and ignore the rest. The rest are not worth consideration on a daily basis, or within the world of what is considered the norm.
That Bill-O thinks he deserves some kind of accolade for announcing that he has now adjudged a few people in Harlem as fitting of membership in the human race is bullshit.
He has no authority to make such judgements and when he claims to do so, I will there to call bullshit.
McWyrm,
Maybe when BillO apologizes to Jeremy Glick for this encounter, we’d cut him slack for being “thunderously obtuse” and clumsy.
But since he holds people to strict standards, it’s only fair to hold him to them as well.
His ignorance is apparent, no doubt about it, but it seems to me to be willful ignorance, not woeful.
Maybe when BillO apologizes to Jeremy Glick for this encounter, we’d cut him slack for being “thunderously obtuse” and clumsy.
But since he holds people to strict standards, it’s only fair to hold him to them as well.
His ignorance is apparent, no doubt about it, but it seems to me to be willful ignorance, not woeful.
actor212, if Bill-O has ever been to Memphis, I’d wager he ate ho-hum steam-table Holiday Inn chow, rather than risk contact with the plethora of black patrons of all income levels who politely crowd the city’s excellent restaurants and diners.
When I asked black pedestrians in Memphis how to find–to cite just one example–The Rendevous, a sublime BBQ joint tucked away downtown,b these kind souls told me exactly how, their faces wreathed with smiles. “You sure got a treat coming,” more than one man assured us.
The manly Mr. Biscuitbarrel and I were keen to try The Rendezvous when we’ve gone to Memphis for the W.C. Handy Blues Awards. In John Hiatt’s song, “Memphis in the Meantime,” Hiatt sings, “…perhaps we could get ourselves a decent meal/Down at The Rendezvous…”
“Decent” is a gross understatement. And if you’re driving south on Hwy 61, Clarksdale, Mississippi, home of “the crossroads,” boasts Abe’s, known for its tamales, and…
When I asked black pedestrians in Memphis how to find–to cite just one example–The Rendevous, a sublime BBQ joint tucked away downtown,b these kind souls told me exactly how, their faces wreathed with smiles. “You sure got a treat coming,” more than one man assured us.
The manly Mr. Biscuitbarrel and I were keen to try The Rendezvous when we’ve gone to Memphis for the W.C. Handy Blues Awards. In John Hiatt’s song, “Memphis in the Meantime,” Hiatt sings, “…perhaps we could get ourselves a decent meal/Down at The Rendezvous…”
“Decent” is a gross understatement. And if you’re driving south on Hwy 61, Clarksdale, Mississippi, home of “the crossroads,” boasts Abe’s, known for its tamales, and…
I’m sure O’Reilly really does think he’s being generous and magnanimous, and making a point about similarity rather than difference. To him, the only racist statement in this context would be to say that the black restaurant was repulsively, irredeemably different, and since he was saying that *wasn’t* true, he’s on the good side. But he’s refusing to recognize the smarmy, dripping condescension of the statement, which is also racist, just in a way he’s refusing to acknowledge.
I have no special urge to parade my credentials to you, Sidhe, or to any other stranger on the internets.
You all point out Bill’s history of hatefulness - sure, he’s a bigot. Pile on him for being a bigot.
But the point he appears to be making here was not bigoted. If you want to make fun of Bill for saying something awful, wait just a bit and you’re sure to get your chance. Why pile on him when he says something fairly decent, even if the nuance of his presentation wasn’t to your liking?
The whole of the criticisms I’ve seen here so far hang entirely on the one phrase “I couldn’t get over the fact…” Attacking somebody for a single objectionable phrase is gotcha politics. It’s stupid and pointless.
The notion that thug life and black America aren’t one and the same is and should be well known to just about everybody, but you know it isn’t. It isn’t obvious to Bill’s audience. And if he choses to explain this to them slowly, using small words and corny object lessons, I’m not going to object.
You all point out Bill’s history of hatefulness - sure, he’s a bigot. Pile on him for being a bigot.
But the point he appears to be making here was not bigoted. If you want to make fun of Bill for saying something awful, wait just a bit and you’re sure to get your chance. Why pile on him when he says something fairly decent, even if the nuance of his presentation wasn’t to your liking?
The whole of the criticisms I’ve seen here so far hang entirely on the one phrase “I couldn’t get over the fact…” Attacking somebody for a single objectionable phrase is gotcha politics. It’s stupid and pointless.
The notion that thug life and black America aren’t one and the same is and should be well known to just about everybody, but you know it isn’t. It isn’t obvious to Bill’s audience. And if he choses to explain this to them slowly, using small words and corny object lessons, I’m not going to object.
Nobody said you had to parade your credentials to anyone. But we’re not likely to assume that you are a radical raving lefty when, again, we don’t know you. So you don’t really have much standing here to suggest that even as a lefty you think Bill’s being unfairly attacked by lefties.
I’d accept that criticism, though I would still think it’s wrong, from one of the commenters I know here who actually has a reputation as a lefty.
You are concern trolling. You have come here to attempt to shame us lefties into adopting your viewpoint on the grounds that it is the viewpoint lefties like you should hold.
Given that we have no evidence other than your statement that you are a lefty, and you sound just like radical raving lefty Juan Williams, you’ll forgive us for not taking your well-meaning advice to lay off O’Reilly.
If you’d like to hang around and let us get to know you before you start trying to offer us advice, let alone shaming us into thinking as you do, I’m sure you’re welcome to do so. But why you assume you deserve to be given more respect than you’ve shown us is beyond me.
And again, I have no interest in cutting *any* adult slack for suddenly realizing that black people are not just like what they see in movies. That includes O’Reilly and his audience, and anyone else. I’m going to mock anyone who in their adult years finally realizes that gay people don’t fuck in public, too.
These are things you should know sooner than middle age. These are things you would have known sooner if you’d made any effort. And if you don’t, then you are worthy of mocking. I’m not giving anyone any credit for waiting nearly sixty years to stop being a bigot, even assuming that he has. The entire incident oozes paternalism. It is racist, and it is all the more racist because he thinks it’s evidence that he is not racist.
I’d accept that criticism, though I would still think it’s wrong, from one of the commenters I know here who actually has a reputation as a lefty.
You are concern trolling. You have come here to attempt to shame us lefties into adopting your viewpoint on the grounds that it is the viewpoint lefties like you should hold.
Given that we have no evidence other than your statement that you are a lefty, and you sound just like radical raving lefty Juan Williams, you’ll forgive us for not taking your well-meaning advice to lay off O’Reilly.
If you’d like to hang around and let us get to know you before you start trying to offer us advice, let alone shaming us into thinking as you do, I’m sure you’re welcome to do so. But why you assume you deserve to be given more respect than you’ve shown us is beyond me.
And again, I have no interest in cutting *any* adult slack for suddenly realizing that black people are not just like what they see in movies. That includes O’Reilly and his audience, and anyone else. I’m going to mock anyone who in their adult years finally realizes that gay people don’t fuck in public, too.
These are things you should know sooner than middle age. These are things you would have known sooner if you’d made any effort. And if you don’t, then you are worthy of mocking. I’m not giving anyone any credit for waiting nearly sixty years to stop being a bigot, even assuming that he has. The entire incident oozes paternalism. It is racist, and it is all the more racist because he thinks it’s evidence that he is not racist.
Wyrm: I’ll cut you a break and consider your lecture at its face. Possibly some 80 year olds might have a glimmer that people who run and attend a particular restaurant in Harlem and happen to be black are human thanks to Bill-O.
Please elucidate on how that doesn’t still uphold racism.
Please elucidate on how that doesn’t still uphold racism.
McWyrm,
What part of “I couldn’t get over the fact” isn’t racist?
He’s not talking to his audience…he’s talking to himself.
As someone up the thread pointed out, this is a revelation that maybe “black folk ain’t all Ludacris an’ shit”
BUT you have to hold that belief in the first place to lose it!
Ergo, BillO is a racist.
What part of “I couldn’t get over the fact” isn’t racist?
He’s not talking to his audience…he’s talking to himself.
As someone up the thread pointed out, this is a revelation that maybe “black folk ain’t all Ludacris an’ shit”
BUT you have to hold that belief in the first place to lose it!
Ergo, BillO is a racist.
Ms Biscuitbarrel,
You know, I was down in Memphis a few years ago, and I actually had dinner at Corky’s, a very famous restaurant in Memphis.
And I couldn’t get over the fact that there was no difference between Corky’s restaurant and any other BBQ restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it’s run by southerners, primarily Southerner patronship. It was the same, and that’s really what this society’s all about now here in the U.S.A.
:-)
Actually, I was really impressed by the BBQ. I love Virgil’s up here in NYC, but Corky’s blew my mind.
You know, I was down in Memphis a few years ago, and I actually had dinner at Corky’s, a very famous restaurant in Memphis.
And I couldn’t get over the fact that there was no difference between Corky’s restaurant and any other BBQ restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it’s run by southerners, primarily Southerner patronship. It was the same, and that’s really what this society’s all about now here in the U.S.A.
:-)
Actually, I was really impressed by the BBQ. I love Virgil’s up here in NYC, but Corky’s blew my mind.
Not concern trolling. I come here for the snark. I prefer my snark to take its inspiration from more deserving incidents.
Look - lots of folks are ignorant. It’s a damn shame. And pure, honest-to-goodness ignorance can be pretty funny sometimes. Bill has made his it his nitch to pontificate to the chronically ignorant. When he hams it up, and WoC cracks on him, I get a huge kick out of it. Here he seemed to be having a rare moment of lucidity - not near as funny.
Didn’t mean to preach at anybody.
Look - lots of folks are ignorant. It’s a damn shame. And pure, honest-to-goodness ignorance can be pretty funny sometimes. Bill has made his it his nitch to pontificate to the chronically ignorant. When he hams it up, and WoC cracks on him, I get a huge kick out of it. Here he seemed to be having a rare moment of lucidity - not near as funny.
Didn’t mean to preach at anybody.
If McWyrm is right and Mr Bill was only feigning astonishment as some kind of irony, sarcasm, whatever — which is plausible enough — he has no one to blame but himself (or at least his carefully crafted public persona) for the fact that it fell flat–backfired, really. Certain people just shouldn’t try to do certain types of material. Look what happened when Jerry Springer tried to return to the evening news.
Regarding the “please explain how this isn’t racist” requests:
Look, I’m sure Bill is a horrible racist. I’m sure he loathes and fears people who don’t look/act like him or (possibly even worse) pretends to on TV.
But honestly - if I read correctly the money quote from this screed was “..this is what white America doesn’t know, particularly people who don’t have a lot of interaction with black Americans. They think that the culture is dominated by Twista, Ludacris, and Snoop Dogg.”
It does assume that a deeply ignorance world view is the norm for white folk - I sure hope this isn’t true, but I’m not always optimistic. The thing was loaded with unfortunate turns of phrase, and the analysis was more than a little off. But if that’s the most hateful thing Bill (or any media mouthpiece for that matter) has said in the few days - damn, it’s been a good week.
Look, I’m sure Bill is a horrible racist. I’m sure he loathes and fears people who don’t look/act like him or (possibly even worse) pretends to on TV.
But honestly - if I read correctly the money quote from this screed was “..this is what white America doesn’t know, particularly people who don’t have a lot of interaction with black Americans. They think that the culture is dominated by Twista, Ludacris, and Snoop Dogg.”
It does assume that a deeply ignorance world view is the norm for white folk - I sure hope this isn’t true, but I’m not always optimistic. The thing was loaded with unfortunate turns of phrase, and the analysis was more than a little off. But if that’s the most hateful thing Bill (or any media mouthpiece for that matter) has said in the few days - damn, it’s been a good week.
Mrs. Biscuitbarrel,
The Rendezvous is truly a sign of humanity’s basic goodness. Nobody here in Georgia believes me, but that’s mainly ’cause Georgia has a pitiful excuse for barbecue. If you ever find yourself in Birmingham or Tuscaloosa, check out Dreamland Barbecue. It’s some awesome drink-what-sauce-is-left stuff, too, but it lacks that certain, as the French say, I don’t know what that one swallows at the Rendevous.
My last trip back home to Northeast Mississippi included stops at both joints to show a pair of yankee-born friends what good barbecue was all about. They’d had some Texas stuff and the ungodly crap they shovel here and in South Carolina, but I’m afraid I’ve ruined ‘em for any place else.
The Rendezvous is truly a sign of humanity’s basic goodness. Nobody here in Georgia believes me, but that’s mainly ’cause Georgia has a pitiful excuse for barbecue. If you ever find yourself in Birmingham or Tuscaloosa, check out Dreamland Barbecue. It’s some awesome drink-what-sauce-is-left stuff, too, but it lacks that certain, as the French say, I don’t know what that one swallows at the Rendevous.
My last trip back home to Northeast Mississippi included stops at both joints to show a pair of yankee-born friends what good barbecue was all about. They’d had some Texas stuff and the ungodly crap they shovel here and in South Carolina, but I’m afraid I’ve ruined ‘em for any place else.
And on topic, any opportunity to cave in Bill O’Reilly’s nuts, metaphorically speaking*, is one that should be taken with gusto. Goddamn disgusting human being, and if you have any doubt about that a’tall, you ain’t never paid any attention to anything the man has ever said.
Everyone’s free to give everyone else as much rope as desired if one so chooses. But for me, I’m tired of putting up with some people who are actively working to make human society worse, and I’m almost convinced Bill O’Reilly’s doing it on purpose. He deserves no response apart from “Hey, dude, fuck you”, especially with pig-ignorant bullshit like this. He’s a fucking major media figure, for Christ’s sake. Even if the Middle American Dork he claims to speak for would be just as shocked that black folks can behave themselves in public places as Bill was, well Jesus, man, that’s still something to be held up and mocked. It’s friggin’ 2007, for love of Maw Bean.
* Just metaphorically, of course, via logic, reason, humor and love, since Bill will never be able to counter things he can’t comprehend. Don’t actually kick the guy in the nads, ’cause that ain’t nice, using your mind is better for all in the long run, and he ain’t worth the hell it’d cause.
Everyone’s free to give everyone else as much rope as desired if one so chooses. But for me, I’m tired of putting up with some people who are actively working to make human society worse, and I’m almost convinced Bill O’Reilly’s doing it on purpose. He deserves no response apart from “Hey, dude, fuck you”, especially with pig-ignorant bullshit like this. He’s a fucking major media figure, for Christ’s sake. Even if the Middle American Dork he claims to speak for would be just as shocked that black folks can behave themselves in public places as Bill was, well Jesus, man, that’s still something to be held up and mocked. It’s friggin’ 2007, for love of Maw Bean.
* Just metaphorically, of course, via logic, reason, humor and love, since Bill will never be able to counter things he can’t comprehend. Don’t actually kick the guy in the nads, ’cause that ain’t nice, using your mind is better for all in the long run, and he ain’t worth the hell it’d cause.
Hold the presses; Billious has just been dethroned as baddass of the week by none other than Tailgunner Rush, who has proclaimed that any soldier who criticizes the “surge” and endorses pulling out of Eye-rack is a traitor.
Therefor, only Bush backing soldiers can truly
be called patriots.
Would that then be America’s own Republican Guard?
Therefor, only Bush backing soldiers can truly
be called patriots.
Would that then be America’s own Republican Guard?
But if that’s the most hateful thing Bill (or any media mouthpiece for that matter) has said in the few days - damn, it’s been a good week.
Well, we can absolutely agree on that. I used to get annoyed with people who made Dan Quayle/Potatoe jokes. The man was, after all, selling out government services in the name of privatization. In my book, that amounts to doing real harm to citizens and others, and mocking him because he couldn’t spell seemed petty.
My irritation never stopped people mocking him, and mocking him never seemed to stop the people who were doing it from addressing more substantive issues as well. Possibly everybody just needs a busman’s holiday now and again.
So fast forward a few years, and now we have a president who is not only less coherent in public and more prone to rhetorical boneheadedness than Quayle, but is also doing far more harm to people all over the planet.
Sometimes I wonder if there were more people out there who could have been persuaded their president was going to embarrass them by looking like a dumbass than the people we managed to convince that he would shame them by torturing and killing civilians. We’ll never know, but I wonder.
As far as cheap shots go, I’ve spent the last few weeks annoying bloggers by suggesting they should maybe give the “They don’t have books” beauty pageant contestant a break on several grounds. I generally do this where I am known, and where people accept that I am one of those bleeding heart liberals who makes excuses for everybody’s cluelessness. As such, people usually just ignore it and go on.
I still haven’t changed anyone’s mind, and I rather doubt I will. So why do I think O’Reilly’s situation is different? Well, mostly, and speaking just as myself, because it seems like he is doing it at least as much from mean-spirited ignorance as general cluelessness. The beauty queen is just dumb and flustered but I can’t imagine anyone really expects better out of teenage beauty queens.
O’Reilly, meanwhile, tells racist jokes on occasion, in quite public places, often in the company of the very people he’s telling the racist joke about. That’s difficult to interpret as anything other than a racist who thinks he’s not. Which means when he does it again I’m not likely to give him the benefit of the doubt. He hasn’t earned it; in fact just the opposite.
In other words, I do somewhat see what I think your point is: this isn’t the worst thing he’s said, and he wasn’t probably trying to be a bigot. But I still don’t actually agree. He’s an adult, he’s a professional communicator, and he’s a very hateful person who influences a lot of ignorant people.
It’s possible that, as you’ve suggested, in this case he was influencing the ignorant people in the right direction. But I personally rather doubt it, because the I’m-not-a-bigot types I know would simply respond that the black people were on their best behavior in public and keep the underlying stereotype.
Even if it is true in this case, he has done more harm than good with his position, and like Don Imus, I am happy to see him lose his influence by pretty much whatever legal means gets the job done.
I will leave it to those who are not the victims of O’Reilly’s rhetoric to defend him, just as I will leave it to those who have not been hurt by Larry Craig’s votes to defend him. I’ve got enough to do defending victims of GOP bullying without wanting to spend my time defending the bullies as well.
Well, we can absolutely agree on that. I used to get annoyed with people who made Dan Quayle/Potatoe jokes. The man was, after all, selling out government services in the name of privatization. In my book, that amounts to doing real harm to citizens and others, and mocking him because he couldn’t spell seemed petty.
My irritation never stopped people mocking him, and mocking him never seemed to stop the people who were doing it from addressing more substantive issues as well. Possibly everybody just needs a busman’s holiday now and again.
So fast forward a few years, and now we have a president who is not only less coherent in public and more prone to rhetorical boneheadedness than Quayle, but is also doing far more harm to people all over the planet.
Sometimes I wonder if there were more people out there who could have been persuaded their president was going to embarrass them by looking like a dumbass than the people we managed to convince that he would shame them by torturing and killing civilians. We’ll never know, but I wonder.
As far as cheap shots go, I’ve spent the last few weeks annoying bloggers by suggesting they should maybe give the “They don’t have books” beauty pageant contestant a break on several grounds. I generally do this where I am known, and where people accept that I am one of those bleeding heart liberals who makes excuses for everybody’s cluelessness. As such, people usually just ignore it and go on.
I still haven’t changed anyone’s mind, and I rather doubt I will. So why do I think O’Reilly’s situation is different? Well, mostly, and speaking just as myself, because it seems like he is doing it at least as much from mean-spirited ignorance as general cluelessness. The beauty queen is just dumb and flustered but I can’t imagine anyone really expects better out of teenage beauty queens.
O’Reilly, meanwhile, tells racist jokes on occasion, in quite public places, often in the company of the very people he’s telling the racist joke about. That’s difficult to interpret as anything other than a racist who thinks he’s not. Which means when he does it again I’m not likely to give him the benefit of the doubt. He hasn’t earned it; in fact just the opposite.
In other words, I do somewhat see what I think your point is: this isn’t the worst thing he’s said, and he wasn’t probably trying to be a bigot. But I still don’t actually agree. He’s an adult, he’s a professional communicator, and he’s a very hateful person who influences a lot of ignorant people.
It’s possible that, as you’ve suggested, in this case he was influencing the ignorant people in the right direction. But I personally rather doubt it, because the I’m-not-a-bigot types I know would simply respond that the black people were on their best behavior in public and keep the underlying stereotype.
Even if it is true in this case, he has done more harm than good with his position, and like Don Imus, I am happy to see him lose his influence by pretty much whatever legal means gets the job done.
I will leave it to those who are not the victims of O’Reilly’s rhetoric to defend him, just as I will leave it to those who have not been hurt by Larry Craig’s votes to defend him. I’ve got enough to do defending victims of GOP bullying without wanting to spend my time defending the bullies as well.
Sidhe;
Good enough. I believe I take your point as well: if a friend of mine said this in conversation I’d mock him soundly.
I don’t actually watch Bill at all, so I guess I assume that he says horrible things all the time. Given this assumption, I was kinda puzzled that this gaff made it to the top of the heap.
I certainly don’t want to give the vaguest impression that I’m interested in defending him on general grounds. I just didn’t see this particular clip as special grounds for outrage.
Good enough. I believe I take your point as well: if a friend of mine said this in conversation I’d mock him soundly.
I don’t actually watch Bill at all, so I guess I assume that he says horrible things all the time. Given this assumption, I was kinda puzzled that this gaff made it to the top of the heap.
I certainly don’t want to give the vaguest impression that I’m interested in defending him on general grounds. I just didn’t see this particular clip as special grounds for outrage.
Well, I admit I’m faintly baffled as to why this has caught the attention of those who ignored the “bin Laden can attack San Francisco and I’ll laugh” incident, or any of several hundred other qualifying remarks for Keith Olbermann’s Worst Person In The World title.
But as with Don Imus, I suspect it’s a matter of enough is enough.
The people I know don’t seem to be regarding this as *special* grounds for outrage, but just more evidence that he’s an asshole.
I think it’s too easy for those of us with bleeding hearts to be goaded into defending those who hate us. I might be persuaded to defend someone who said something similar if they haven’t spent the last twenty years trying to whip up hatred against me and the people I love. But increasingly I resist calls to be decent to indecent people, or to be tolerant of the intolerant.
The wingnuts have played that game too long: they benefit from making us condemn our allies when they do something stupid, and they benefit from making us defend our opponents when they do something stupid. Meanwhile, they pragmatically defend only their allies and condemn only their opponents.
I’m not interested in turning into the sort of ruthless manipulators who parrot right wing talking points, but I’m rather tired of being exploited by their we-make-the-rules tactics as well.
Incidentally, Media Matters shows you’re right, he does say horrible things all the time. What’s funniest about it is that he regards Media Matters as “smear merchants” (and my favorite, “George Soros funded smear merchants”, which in addition to being untrue starts to smack of anti-semitism when he goes on about it long enough) for merely repeating verbatim and offering audio links to the things he says on his actual radio and TV shows.
“How dare you quote me accurately” is damned silly grounds for claiming defamation.
But as with Don Imus, I suspect it’s a matter of enough is enough.
The people I know don’t seem to be regarding this as *special* grounds for outrage, but just more evidence that he’s an asshole.
I think it’s too easy for those of us with bleeding hearts to be goaded into defending those who hate us. I might be persuaded to defend someone who said something similar if they haven’t spent the last twenty years trying to whip up hatred against me and the people I love. But increasingly I resist calls to be decent to indecent people, or to be tolerant of the intolerant.
The wingnuts have played that game too long: they benefit from making us condemn our allies when they do something stupid, and they benefit from making us defend our opponents when they do something stupid. Meanwhile, they pragmatically defend only their allies and condemn only their opponents.
I’m not interested in turning into the sort of ruthless manipulators who parrot right wing talking points, but I’m rather tired of being exploited by their we-make-the-rules tactics as well.
Incidentally, Media Matters shows you’re right, he does say horrible things all the time. What’s funniest about it is that he regards Media Matters as “smear merchants” (and my favorite, “George Soros funded smear merchants”, which in addition to being untrue starts to smack of anti-semitism when he goes on about it long enough) for merely repeating verbatim and offering audio links to the things he says on his actual radio and TV shows.
“How dare you quote me accurately” is damned silly grounds for claiming defamation.
McWyrm,
Now that you’ve plumbed the depths of your reasoning, while I don’t agree with you, I can see you’ve spent a fair amount of time thinking about it, so I’ve give it a pass that we just see different facets.
Maybe it’s because I’m a Noo Yawkah who’s actually et at Sylvia’s, as well as several other “Southern cuisine” restaurants in New York.
Maybe it’s because the Big Dog himself has et at Sylvia’s (it’s a must-do campaign stop for any politician running in NYC).
Or maybe it’s just because, indeed, it is just like any other restaurant I’ve ever et in here in NYC. You get greeted at the door, you get shown to the bar or to your seat, you order drinks, food, dessert, you pay your check and you leave.
In other words, it’s a bit more than McDonald’s or the Automat (long lamented).
Sure it’s no different than nearly any other (non-theme) restaurant in the city. They serve food, good and lots of it.
Which is why O’Reilly’s words grate so obviously racist to me: he could go to a kosher restaurant, an Italian, an Irish pub, an Afghani restaurant, or Iranian, or Ethiopian, and he’d find the same goddammed atmosphere: they want you to eat and enjoy.
That he thought Sylvia’s would be any different speaks to me that this is a man who doesn’t get out much, and when he does, he eats in white restaurants with American cuisine.
And that’s why I believe this has distinct racist overtones, because surprise surprise, the black restaurant is like the white restaurant.
Seperate, but equal.
Get it now? Not asking you to agree, I’m asking you to see if you can see my POV.
Now that you’ve plumbed the depths of your reasoning, while I don’t agree with you, I can see you’ve spent a fair amount of time thinking about it, so I’ve give it a pass that we just see different facets.
Maybe it’s because I’m a Noo Yawkah who’s actually et at Sylvia’s, as well as several other “Southern cuisine” restaurants in New York.
Maybe it’s because the Big Dog himself has et at Sylvia’s (it’s a must-do campaign stop for any politician running in NYC).
Or maybe it’s just because, indeed, it is just like any other restaurant I’ve ever et in here in NYC. You get greeted at the door, you get shown to the bar or to your seat, you order drinks, food, dessert, you pay your check and you leave.
In other words, it’s a bit more than McDonald’s or the Automat (long lamented).
Sure it’s no different than nearly any other (non-theme) restaurant in the city. They serve food, good and lots of it.
Which is why O’Reilly’s words grate so obviously racist to me: he could go to a kosher restaurant, an Italian, an Irish pub, an Afghani restaurant, or Iranian, or Ethiopian, and he’d find the same goddammed atmosphere: they want you to eat and enjoy.
That he thought Sylvia’s would be any different speaks to me that this is a man who doesn’t get out much, and when he does, he eats in white restaurants with American cuisine.
And that’s why I believe this has distinct racist overtones, because surprise surprise, the black restaurant is like the white restaurant.
Seperate, but equal.
Get it now? Not asking you to agree, I’m asking you to see if you can see my POV.
Thanks, y’all, for suggestions on great places to eat down South. I’ve written them all down in my notebook for future reference…
He looks and sounds like my nasty Irish uncles, god rest their rotten souls.
I believe the General has written his letter of support to Bill O. I think he may have even met Bill O’s granny and downed a pint or two with her.
I’m surprised that nobody noticed the similarity between this and that column Jennifer Graham wrote for NRO, “No Big Deal” (Oct. 6, 2003. I’m not including the link because I can only write them out in longhand and I don’t want to mess up the margins.) As you may recall, she recounted a time she and her husband, while dining at Applebee’s, noticed a black family that acted Completetly! Normal! and was totally amazed by it. Her husband was particularly impressed that the father hadn’t walked out on his wife and kids, so much so that he wanted to walk up to the guy and give him a high-five.
I feel sorry for that staff at Sylvia’s. How long are they going to have to put up with customers making “Motherf***ing Ice Tea” jokes? I hope O’Relley doesn’t return to that resturant-waiters and waitresses aren’t people you wanna piss off.
I feel sorry for that staff at Sylvia’s. How long are they going to have to put up with customers making “Motherf***ing Ice Tea” jokes? I hope O’Relley doesn’t return to that resturant-waiters and waitresses aren’t people you wanna piss off.
What the…my comment didn’t get thru!
Ooh! They did! And I spotted a grammatical error I didn’t notice before I hit “submit”. As usual.
I kinda hope he does return to Sylvia’s after pissing off the waiters. 
Bill, you’re there. Now at least.
Bill, you’re there. Now at least.
black-owned restaurants are NO DIFFERENT than other dining places, such as Italian-owned restaurants.
there are mob hits in black-owned resturants???
there are mob hits in black-owned resturants???
No, he means there are cartoon dogs having spaghetti in the back alley.
OK!
I’m here for teh parade!
Where’s teh float?
I’m here for teh parade!
Where’s teh float?
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